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89' Ford Bronco II not getting fire.
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Timbo4
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Apr 29, 2012, 1:49 PM
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89' Ford Bronco II not getting fire.
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Hello everyone. I have a 89' Ford Bronco II with the V-6, 2.9. A little over 200,000 miles. I am not getting fire. It would die after it warms up. But now it won't run an all. I have replaced the coil, cap, rotor, ignition module. The red wires going to the coil, im getting 12 volts with the key on. On the green wire, only 1.5 volts. Is this normal? I appreciate your input. Thank you. Tim
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Apr 29, 2012, 2:19 PM
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Re: 89' Ford Bronco II not getting fire.
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Your measuring this at the coil terminals with everything plugged in including the coil connector?
1.5 volts on the green/yellow wire with the ignition turned on engine off isn't right.
Unplug the ignition module, turn the ignition on, and measure the voltage on the green/yellow wire again.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Apr 29, 2012, 2:25 PM)
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Timbo4
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Apr 29, 2012, 3:27 PM
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Re: 89' Ford Bronco II not getting fire.
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Thank you. I will try that this evening. I will also plug the connector back into the coil and see what my voltage is on the green wire.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Apr 29, 2012, 3:32 PM
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Re: 89' Ford Bronco II not getting fire.
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Have everything plugged in. Then make your voltage measurements on both the red wire and green wire on the coil with your meter black lead connected to the battery ground post.
With the ignition turned on, you should see battery voltage on the red wire and battery voltage on the green wire.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Timbo4
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Apr 29, 2012, 4:57 PM
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Re: 89' Ford Bronco II not getting fire.
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Hello Discreetsignals. I plugged in the plug, and got residual battery voltage on both the red and green and yellow wire, while cranking.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Apr 29, 2012, 5:52 PM
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Re: 89' Ford Bronco II not getting fire.
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This is the diagram for your ignition system.
The ignition module controls the ground side of the ignition coil (green wire) by grounding the circuit and then opening the circuit. This turns the coil on and off. The coil only fires a spark after the circuit is turned off (opened) after being turned on (circuit grounded) for a period of time.
The ignition module uses the sensor (hall effect) inside the distributor as an input for controlling the operation of the coil. The sensor produces a digital on and off signal to control the on and off switch in the ignition control module.
The hall effect sensor is triggered by the trigger wheel inside the distributor. It's important that this distributor trigger wheel turns while cranking the engine.
The ignition module sends out a digital signal called a profile ignition pickup (PIP) to the ECM. The ECM needs this information for determining engine rpm and cylinder position.
The ECM also sends out a control signal to adjust the ignition timing over the circuit called SPOUT (spark out). A jumper on that circuit, that you can unplug to disable the ECM from controlling timing, allows you to set your base timing with a timing light.
The ignition module also needs power from the ignition switch in the run position to operate. Power from the ignition switch in the start position is also sent to the ignition module, so it can increase the coil's on time to compensate for the voltage dropping when the starter is running.
You need to make sure that you have a good power and ground to the ignition control module from both positions on the ignition switch. You need to check this with the circuit operational and your meter back probed into the connector at the ignition control module.
If you have good power and good ground at the module and your coil has battery voltage with the key on both sides, the next place to check is the hall effect sensor in the distributor.
The sensor is a PITA to check and it's impossible to do a bypass test with a test lamp because the sensor plugs into the ignition control module.
The best way to test the sensor is to use a bed of nails on the the signal wire and watch the volt signal change while turning the bottom of the distributor. You have to remove the distributor to do this, so you should mark the distributor so you know which way to put it back in. You'll also have to ground the distributor housing with something like a jumper cable connected to the housing and the negative battery terminal.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Apr 29, 2012, 6:04 PM)
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Timbo4
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May 2, 2012, 4:56 PM
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Re: 89' Ford Bronco II not getting fire.
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Hello Discreetsignals. I'm sorry I'm just getting back to you. You will never know how much I appreciate your time and wisdom. I worked all weekend. The hall sensor has been on the back of my mind for awhile. If I want to remove it, it looks like i'll be removing the distributor. Is there a special 13mm wrench out there for this? It would be nice to do this without removing the distributor. loll Oh by the way. Just for kicks, I took a plug and plugged it into the coil wire coming from the distributor and grounded it to the block. While cranking the motor, I only got one weak spark and that was it. It does the same thing over and over. Thank you Tim.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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May 2, 2012, 5:19 PM
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Re: 89' Ford Bronco II not getting fire.
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You can get the hold down bolt out with a swivel socket I believe. The distributor has to come apart to get to the hall effect sensor. You have to remove the gear on the bottom. It's really is a PITA because the gear is pressed onto the shaft and held by a roll pin. They don't like to come off. If the shaft bushing is all worn out and you have slop in the distributor, probably easier to replace the whole distributor.
This is a guess, but you might be able to remove the ignition module and plug a known good hall effect onto it. Make sure the ignition module is grounded. Then take a soldering gun and lay the sensor against the soldering gun housing. With everything plugged in and a spark plug on the coil wire, turn the ignition on. Then pull the trigger on the soldering gun. The rapid expanding magnetic field from the soldering gun should activate the sensor into producing a signal and you should see a spark.
If you see a spark, more than likely the hall effect is the culprit.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on May 2, 2012, 5:21 PM)
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