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2004 Chrysler Sebring GTC, 2.7l engine - no crank - no start
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DataMgr4u
Novice
Feb 13, 2015, 3:31 PM
Post #1 of 15
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2004 Chrysler Sebring GTC, 2.7l engine - no crank - no start
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Chrysler Sebring GTC, 2.7l engine - no crank - no start
Battery is good
The starter and solenoid is good, as I can jump socket 30 to 87 and it turns the starter motor over.
Power to both sockets 30 and 87a all the time
Power to sockets 85 and 86 when in crank position, however no power to socket 87.... and yes relay is good and clicking when trying to crank engine via ignition switch (i believe this means the ignition switch and neutral switch should be good as it is completing the circuit.
the person is also getting a no bus error - - but they are not sure if it was giving that error before the no start no crank issue
It sounds to me lke a pcm signal issue or grounding issue but wouldn't even guess as to what or how to test to prove this. This vehicle has both a pcm with two plugs and a tcm/ecm.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Feb 13, 2015, 5:31 PM
Post #2 of 15
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Re: 2004 Chrysler Sebring GTC, 2.7l engine - no crank - no start
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If the relay is clicking when you turn the ignition to crank, that means you have control. If you jump 30 to 87 in the relay socket and the starter operates, that means your battery, cables, the circuits on the load side of the relay, and starter is good. You stated the relay is good. Did you swap it with a known good one and still had the same results? 87 is the load side that goes to the starter solenoid, so it won't be showing battery voltage with the relay removed. Are you checking with the relay removed from the socket with a volt meter?
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Feb 13, 2015, 5:37 PM)
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DataMgr4u
Novice
Feb 13, 2015, 7:00 PM
Post #3 of 15
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Re: 2004 Chrysler Sebring GTC, 2.7l engine - no crank - no start
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relay is clicking, but no power to 87. Yes, the relay is good... replaced and even bench tested.
relay shows no power to 87 while in socket and vehicle being cranked.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Feb 13, 2015, 7:09 PM
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Re: 2004 Chrysler Sebring GTC, 2.7l engine - no crank - no start
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You jump 30 to 87 and starter cranks. You turn key to start and relay clicks, but you have no power on 87 when you turn key to start.
When the relay is plugged into the cavity how are you making your voltage measurements? Are you sneaking under the relay with your volt meter probe, rigged some test wires up that come around the relay body, or testing from underneath the PDC?
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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DataMgr4u
Novice
Feb 13, 2015, 8:14 PM
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Re: 2004 Chrysler Sebring GTC, 2.7l engine - no crank - no start
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I first did probe underneath.... got no reading for pin 87.
Later I got a fuse jumper kit... and tested directly with relay fully pushed into sockets..... still same outcome! no power is going to socket 87 before, during, or after turning ignition switch to crank/start position.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Feb 13, 2015, 8:24 PM
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Re: 2004 Chrysler Sebring GTC, 2.7l engine - no crank - no start
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With relay plugged in and volt meter black lead connected to battery negative. What do you have for voltages on 85 and 86 with ignition turned to start?
With ignition turned to start, you should see battery voltage on terminal 86 and close to zero volts on terminal 85. Relay should be latched.
With ignition turned to start you should see battery voltage on terminal 30.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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DataMgr4u
Novice
Feb 13, 2015, 8:49 PM
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Re: 2004 Chrysler Sebring GTC, 2.7l engine - no crank - no start
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I don't remember... I wrote all that down in my notebook, but left it with the car.
I will post at 2pm EST tomorrow.
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DataMgr4u
Novice
Feb 14, 2015, 12:13 PM
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Re: 2004 Chrysler Sebring GTC, 2.7l engine - no crank - no start
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ok the results were as follows:
In off position, 12v noted to socket 87 only
In on position, 12v noted to sockets 87, 85, and 86
In crank position, 12v noted to sockets 87 and 86
Using 12v testing light to ground the following results were noted:
In off position, light on socket 30 only
In on position, light on socket 30 only
In crank position, Light on socket 30 and 86... nothing else
There is power into the ignition switch via the pink wire and out via the yellow wire when in the crank position.
Of note, yesterday I had power to both sockets 30 and 87a all the time
(This post was edited by DataMgr4u on Feb 14, 2015, 12:16 PM)
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Feb 14, 2015, 4:53 PM
Post #9 of 15
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Re: 2004 Chrysler Sebring GTC, 2.7l engine - no crank - no start
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Forget 87a. That one isn't used because it is hot only when the relay isn't latched.
I don't understand how you have voltage on 87 with the ignition off. 87 is the load side that goes to the starter solenoid and shouldn't have 12 volts when the relay contacts are open. Maybe you had 87 and 87a confused.
If 85 had 12 volts on it with the key to the start position, the relay shouldn't be clicking or doing anything. This relay is controlled by the engine computer on the ground side of the relay coil. When the engine computer grounds the circuit when you have 12v on 86, the voltage on 85 goes low or near zero and the relay latches.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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DataMgr4u
Novice
Feb 16, 2015, 2:23 PM
Post #10 of 15
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Re: 2004 Chrysler Sebring GTC, 2.7l engine - no crank - no start
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Battery good, ignition switch good, neutral safetty switch good, starter and solenoid good, relay itself good and clicks when trying to turn over engine... ie in crank position.
However, the only way I can get the car starter to turn over is by by-passing from socket 30 to 87.
Is it a possibility that the PCM isn't sending or receiving signal for completion of circuit? If so how can the PCM be tested.... how to test for signal in and out, as well as ground.... ie there are two connectors on the PCM with up to 40 pins on each connector.
Likewise, as stated earlier am also getting no bus error in dash gauge.... yet everything on the dash are all working..... just no crank - no start.
The car test itself works fine and shows no errors other than no bus. Also tried to use code reader/scanner but no codes were found.
(This post was edited by DataMgr4u on Feb 16, 2015, 2:48 PM)
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Feb 16, 2015, 5:15 PM
Post #11 of 15
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Re: 2004 Chrysler Sebring GTC, 2.7l engine - no crank - no start
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Something is wrong in your testing. The diagram above pretty much gives you what you should have and what goes where.
I don't understand that you hear the relay itself click, but your not getting power on 87 when you have power on 30. Your readings of 12 volts on 85 and 87 when the ignition is in the on position doesn't make any sense. If you notice in the wiring diagram power from the switch to the relay only occurs when the switch is in the crank, number 1, position.
Your missing something in your testing or your testing wrong. Maybe your confusing the starter relay for another relay that is clicking. No bus in the cluster could be from the BCM not communicating with the MIC. You would need a scan tool to interface the modules in the vehicle to pull codes and also see if you can communicate with the MIC and the BCM.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Feb 16, 2015, 5:17 PM)
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GC
User
Feb 17, 2015, 11:34 AM
Post #12 of 15
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Re: 2004 Chrysler Sebring GTC, 2.7l engine - no crank - no start
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Maybe I missed it but I didnt see 85 being tested for ground from pcm. I have seen chryslers with no bus displayed caused by bad ground causing no crank. DS is right, need to get testing straight.
____________________________________________________
Willing to help, willing to learn... Rob
(This post was edited by GC on Feb 17, 2015, 3:18 PM)
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DataMgr4u
Novice
Feb 18, 2015, 5:03 PM
Post #13 of 15
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Re: 2004 Chrysler Sebring GTC, 2.7l engine - no crank - no start
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When hooking my light tester to ground and positive end to 85 socket.... nothing noted.... ie tester did not light.... does that mean I have a bad ground to pcm?
Where is the ground wire for the pcm as no cable coming from PCM box..... therefore I can only assume it is one of the 40 pins from the top connector or one of the 40 pins from the bottom connector.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Feb 18, 2015, 6:31 PM
Post #14 of 15
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Re: 2004 Chrysler Sebring GTC, 2.7l engine - no crank - no start
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As the diagram indicates, it's pin #31 of the C1 connector.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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