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2001 Town Car, No Crank, No Start...


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AbrahamsLincoln
New User

Mar 7, 2015, 6:58 PM

Post #1 of 8 (1546 views)
post icon 2001 Town Car, No Crank, No Start... Sign In

First, sorry if this was answered in the forums already but I already got lost trying to read through them and most were people arguing about who knows more. Anyways...A week ago I smelled what seemed to be electrical wires burning. Couldn't pin point it. Couple days later my heating and cooling went. it just shut off in my dashboard. which led me to think it was a short. There has also been a rattling noise sounds like bad bearing and it was coming from the compressor. Haven't had a chance to replace it due to snow but still needed the car for going to work. Well now the car just died on me in the middle of an intersection. LOL note to self...NEVER IGNORE WARNINGS. Anyway had car towed home. First thing I noticed was continuous clicking from under the dashboard drivers side (thought relay or a dead battery. Had new one in trunk from night before so replaced. Clicking stopped. So I thought it had to be my alternator. (will take to Autozone for bench test) but when I tried to start the car there was just one click. Tried again, just a click. So I thought they gave me low charged battery, checked voltage, it was about 12.1. So I added my jumper box and tried again still same click I'm like really my starter might be shot? But how would that have made the car to die on me? And a dead battery? (I had bought that new one because old one needed to be jumped in cold weather) So I checked fuses with a multimeter by measuring OHMS but couldn't check relays yet. I'm sure problem lies within the first burned wires I smelled but I'm lost on where to begin looking. I thought the smell might have been near the blower motor which makes sense being as though I've been having problems with my heating/cooling. Air conditioner doesn't work And blows only from defroster. I'm guessing an actuator problem or something and didn't want to try and tackle it yet. Has anyone had similar problems with their car or know where I should start looking? It would be great! I'm comfy changing alternators and what not, but electrical problems are like nemesis. But there is a patch of ice under the car now and I don't want to go poking and prodding everywhere. Beside the fact that it's freezing out. Any bypass to the problem would be great. Meaning I have funds for alternator and starter but if I can do without the compressor for now would be Ideal for the time being. Come Payday I will Make It Rain on it lol. But my funds don't wanna waste water right now. Any advice is helpful.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Mar 8, 2015, 3:47 AM

Post #2 of 8 (1526 views)
Re: 2001 Town Car, No Crank, No Start... Sign In

Hey - Enough going on and wires burning so what would you expect? You have to hoist or jack this up on ice to check things out - forget that.


Common problem could - repeat - COULD be positive battery cable sold as a whole set of neat stuff that can burn up on these. Worth a look as it doesn't crank. Why on earth did you replace an alternator when it doesn't even run?


Oh wellCrazy
I think this positive cable set is only available at dealers now if that. Looks like this and you wont like the price,



See if it's all burned up at the starter that you'll never get out easily so may need some pro help with this. A/C noise at compressor needs to be checked now or when running for what that is - clutch issue or who knows unless obvious while not running?


T



AbrahamsLincoln
New User

Mar 8, 2015, 8:56 AM

Post #3 of 8 (1515 views)
Re: 2001 Town Car, No Crank, No Start... Sign In

Thank you for your response. But I didn't change the Alternator yet because I don't know if it's broken or not, that's why I said I have to get a bench test done at autozone. It was one of the culprits because my car stalled out and when it was towed home it was a dead battery. Girlfriend was driving it and she couldn't describe symptoms of the stall. So I have to go through the checklist and figure out what caused the initial problem to begin with before I go broke on replacing parts. So far all I changed was the battery. It needed to be changed anyway. My main suspect has been a short or a bad ground as you have mentioned and thanks for the link. I put a bunch of salt under car, ice is mostly melted by now so I can take a look near starter as well. Going to do a voltage drop test on it today if I can get to it. Like I said it's at electric problems that I start getting brain farts. I'm pretty handy enough and have changed lots of parts in cars like water pumps, timing belts, harmonic balance, crankshaft sensors, and a bunch of other stuff so i half ass know my way around but still could use help in pointing in right directions. I messed up with this car by not getting to the problems quick enough but that has been due to financial issues and not neglect. I'm going to check those wires you mentioned. Compressor is definitely a clutch issue/broken bearings. Used stethoscope to find out here the noise was coming from before the car went kaput on me. It has been a whole domino effect within two weeks of sh!t weather making my problems even worse. Thanks again for your time.


(This post was edited by AbrahamsLincoln on Mar 8, 2015, 9:02 AM)


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Mar 8, 2015, 9:22 AM

Post #4 of 8 (1509 views)
Re: 2001 Town Car, No Crank, No Start... Sign In

One step at a time with this. No telling on alternator and you don't need to take it off at all to know if it's OK or not but helps if you get a couple test tools - cheapos will do for basics.


*Either would do an analog or digital volt/ohm meter. $10 bucks or less - Wally World or Harbor Freight.
* Plain led I like better test light. Wally World or even NAPA under $10 bucks.
* Get a battery charger/maintainer combo that will auto shut off. Slow but does the trick. Wally World, Home Depot or similar have them - around $20 bucks.


You have to know you have a good battery and clean connections or about anything is a waste of time checking.


Alternator: When you get it running and think you will with a known good battery as you hear a click if that's at the starter just tug on the wires a tad it will probably go another time and run. Volts taken before you started it at all and again when running should read above 13v up to about 15v right after you start it and stay in that range even when you turn on high use items like blower fan full blast, rear window defogger, lights it shouldn't drop below 13v ever if belt it in fact tight enough and not slipping for any reason. Done - alt is good if so.


OK - road salts or plain road yuk get on these starters and the wires to solenoid on it right at it. One small wire is a trigger wire from your key should light with the test light when a helper turns key to start position - a must know that much early. Take a good look at the wires and connections while you can. If a crusted mess it's gotta get cleaned up at least and may break studs in doing it. -- Battery should be disconnected again, neg off first on when all done and can add to you tools list a memory saver - ask at a parts outlet like Autozone for one that uses a 9v battery not too expensive and they do work if you don't open a door and do disable any auto lighting and hood light. Not good for long term just quick times for disconnecting a battery and not lose any data stored or presets plus alarm shouldn't set but might depending?


Any antitheft controls are up to you to know how they work and what triggers them. Key itself thru any aftermarket crap or what. It would likely be enabled just by taking the battery out or it going dead for any reason.


MOST IMORTANT IS HOIST THE CAR SECURLY AND USE JACK STANDS OR WHAT IT TAKES TO BE ABSOLUTELY SURE IT CAN'T FALL ON YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


T



AbrahamsLincoln
New User

Mar 8, 2015, 11:14 AM

Post #5 of 8 (1500 views)
Re: 2001 Town Car, No Crank, No Start... Sign In

I have all of those tools and then some. steering wheel pullers, harmonic balance pullers, compressor, air tools, probably only thing I'm missing is an engine hoist. (Tools to get basic things done I mean). I'm not trying to brag like I'm a pro mechanic or anything, but pretty handy and and tools are important. Never know when you're going to need them. I mentioned I ran some voltage tests. Today I went out and Brand new battery is dead. So I definitely have a parasitic draw. Guess I have to do more tests on that. I'm guessing a starter "could" have a short in it and draining my battery but waiting on my friend to bring me back my charger and help out in getting under the car to check connections and do a voltage drop test on starter. I did connect my jumper box to the battery and banged on the starter with a mallet and I was getting a stronger Click then previously mentioned which gave me higher hopes in it being the starter but could still be a ground issue because after all my air/cooling went right before it died on me. I'm just dreading following wires to god knows where in this damn car. Will post hopefully in a couple hours if my friend gets here on time before I lose daylight.


(This post was edited by AbrahamsLincoln on Mar 8, 2015, 11:16 AM)


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Mar 8, 2015, 11:56 AM

Post #6 of 8 (1496 views)
Re: 2001 Town Car, No Crank, No Start... Sign In

Up top you said you or someone smelled burning wire. Have you found anything burnt looking anywhere at all and if so a place to check out.


OK: Checking for a parasitic draw with battery charged now you need to disconnect (use neg battery cable at battery) cable and put your DVOM connected between post and the u-bolt clamp. Wait for things to "go to sleep" and have hood light disconnected or bulb out of it. Normally unseen you would pull fuses one at a time to watch meter draw not more than 50ma and then know only that circuit is the trouble but narrows it down.


Starter alone could be bad but not drawing current unless solenoid is sending power to it and should be NONE unless requested and that's a problem spot if corroded right there at starter's solenoid. I actually doubt that's the drain.


Alternator could be. Not so common to me but they do have bat power all the time and if you while doing this test unplugged and took off the "bat" wire and then no drain that would be the issue.


OK - In pulling fuses if needed you need to disable interior lights as with door open it would show as a drain. Got that?


Other problem is the dead battery. How dead? Anything at all from it or just dead nothing? It matters as you said you had ice to melt and dead batteries will freeze if 100% dead at temps of about 20sF or so. Some charge left it would tolerate lower temps. Then if frozen the case can even crack wide open or plates inside touch and that battery is junk new or not.


All these problems with A/C (heat or blower and where it directs it) needs correct power and I think still vacuum on some so if engine isn't running it won't stay where you want for long or low voltage with battery dropping out IDK what the actuators might do but wouldn't like it so let that be for now. Those items should not be able to drain unless ignition switch is allowing current to them with vehicle shut off, key out and if they do have power ignition switch issues now in the cards. It's actually newer than a recalled bunch where you could pull key out and it wasn't in OFF position exactly right!


Back to other as there's lots going on and wrong at this time. If you took belt off you could spin compressor and alternator and other pulleys to see if any are making what you thought was a compressor noise and might be?? Compressor's clutch should not be able to be a parasitic drain but unplug it too in testing but it shouldn't have any power if key is off,


T



AbrahamsLincoln
New User

Mar 9, 2015, 6:10 PM

Post #7 of 8 (1469 views)
Re: 2001 Town Car, No Crank, No Start... Sign In

I haven't been able to work on my car completely. And my friend brought my charger back not working. So now I have to take it to autozone and have them charge it for a couple hours. It is completely dead as in not even dash lights. When I put my jumper box everything lit up. But still no crank. But I wasn't expecting anything with such a dead battery. In other news I took the serpentine belt of to take the alternator for a bench test. It passed. But I discovered that my compressor had seized up which probably stalled the car. I tried starting it with just the jumper box but not even a click. I'm crossing my fingers in hoping that the battery is so dead and that's why the starter isn't kicking in. Tomorrow I will try to run the tests you mentioned with a charged battery in case it still doesn't start up. I'm sure I'm still left with a short somewhere and I hope its some ground wire that's simple to get to. Decided to bypass the compressor using a bypass pulley (not yet purchased till I can at least get a crank out the car without the belt on) reason for bypass is because I don't want to invest into a new dryer and flush on top of new compressor. Will get to that next month. I sill would like to change the alternator anyway. It spins freely but a slight metal on metal feel at certain spots with a tiny squeak. Thing is old and I and I don't want it being the the thing leaving me stranded next. Still not going to buy anything till I run those tests and get a sign of life first though. Never know, fresh charged battery and car might start. So I'm hoping BIG LOL, but I'm never that lucky. And by the way thanks for your input so far. I do appreciate it. I was going to use a battery from a drill to check the relays to see if they click and use a meter to check its resistance but even if they are good I'm thinking of replacing them anyway. I don't know if they have a time frame on when they should be changed but figure it can't hurt.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Mar 9, 2015, 10:23 PM

Post #8 of 8 (1461 views)
Re: 2001 Town Car, No Crank, No Start... Sign In

OK - Jumper boxes are of such varying power and ability they alone are iffy unless real costly pro ones used all the time. You might have some luck giving the starter a "love tap" with a hammer. Try not to crack the thing as it's not certain yet on it being bad. If that gets you a click or attempt from it that does suggest toss it and then you'll have a good look at those wires.


Just get it to crank and run w no belt for now for a second or twol. A/C clutches seem to be popular this week here. That one - take a look at it if low on front passenger's side the 8mm/5/16th little bolt takes out the drive plate but don't lose tiny washers that are in that hole! Use a magnetic pencil size and get them out if you don't find at least one.


I forget for now but think they a snap ring you can replace the clutch or get it out and a new bearing or whole clutch yourself or ask.


To spare the book it's OK indefinitely to just let it be a pulley and unplug marked relay, wires at compressor or the switch at the I think aluminum roundish can at passenger's firewall area. A/C won't work but car can be used for now -- this doesn't mess with refrigerant charge or any other compressor or A/C issues just gets it going forever or save that for later.


Hey! The A/C is an entire issue on it's own so let's deal with that separately and just get this running for now. Tiny problem or a nightmare unknown on that yet.


Starter is probably a real hard one to get out and might take tilting the engine but you still need to know or get a look at it. If you ever had one click you can probably get it going for a better place to work on it or take it somewhere.


Sorry about your battery charger - don't loan tools. I just wasted my own on a stone dead battery about a month ago dammit but I did it, not loaned out, left it trying unwatched and it tried too hard - oh well. It's only for when you need a faster charge I still rather use the slower maintainers mentioned earlier or have spare batteries (one universal fits almost anything to just get car going for a day) around still even though done with this crap for quite a while do what I have to,


T







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