Main IndexAuto Repair Home Search Posts SEARCH
POSTS
Who's Online WHO'S
ONLINE
Log in LOG
IN









Search Auto Parts

1994 Crown Victoria lx EEC Replacement?


  Email This Post



Steve60915
User

Feb 1, 2016, 12:47 PM

Post #1 of 18 (1334 views)
1994 Crown Victoria lx EEC Replacement? Sign In

Ok so today i put oil in my car and placed the oil cap on the EEC box and went to close the hood, Not hard or anything but apparently hard enough to cause some issues. Now all electrical within the car and lights including brights are good but when starting the car there is nothing and i mean nothing. No clicking or anything. The fuel pump comes on, I can hear that. Was able to test the relays by swapping out the fuel pump for the EEC one and still the fuel pump came on. When starting the check engine light did not come on with the rest, when searching the internet all solutions point to the EEC. Either ground or power wires for it, and I may have pinched one bc they were riding under the EEC box a little. Now if I can eliminate the ground wires and power wires and relays for the EEC, that would leave the EEC it's self. The part is in stores nearby for a little over 100.00 but can i replace it myself?


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Feb 1, 2016, 2:48 PM

Post #2 of 18 (1328 views)
Re: 1994 Crown Victoria lx EEC Replacement? Sign In

Steve! Sure sounds like you left the oil cap on the cover of the fuse and relay box underhood and it traumatized it pretty good.
Well - a lot of items get fused and relays there that go to wiring under that, that probably took a hit either shorting or pulled out/damaged?
Personally never had the pleasure of removing that box to see how it's all done under it but think about now you should be looking. Anything pulled out, signs or burnt wire, shriveled up wire insulation and things not looking right first.
There's also critical item mounted on driver's inner fender metal side nearer firewall with wires (many) that can unplug (found one that way once and nothing worked right) a bit easy to unplug IMO.
Call this damage first then when CEL light works you may have codes or not. IDK - think if messed up I would disconnect negative battery before even investigating so any possible codes lost but no real loss as wouldn't trust much about any with this.
In short - first step is to plain see what the heck happened by eye, put back together if obvious then you have something to work with,


T



Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Feb 1, 2016, 2:52 PM

Post #3 of 18 (1324 views)
Re: 1994 Crown Victoria lx EEC Replacement? Sign In

I don't know what brings you to the conclusion that a computer will fix this.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Steve60915
User

Feb 1, 2016, 3:27 PM

Post #4 of 18 (1321 views)
Re: 1994 Crown Victoria lx EEC Replacement? Sign In

lol no def the EEC box. it sits on top the driver side wheel well. the fuse box is by the battery lol. which btw i did check all fuses i could visually check under the hood.


Steve60915
User

Feb 1, 2016, 3:29 PM

Post #5 of 18 (1320 views)
Re: 1994 Crown Victoria lx EEC Replacement? Sign In

The main question was rather or not the EEC would need to be programmed before I could slap her in. The rest of the information was just information lol.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Feb 1, 2016, 3:53 PM

Post #6 of 18 (1315 views)
Re: 1994 Crown Victoria lx EEC Replacement? Sign In

Slow down sport - it's damaged wiring or a ground FIRST then find out if that's back together and right if it need anything. You seem stuck on one item not what happened - an accident/damage.
ONE - Worked for a limo place on site for minor crap. Owner bought a wrecked Lincoln for parts for the limos. Same mostly as all these. That box was cracked and the item I mentioned unplugged from a total loss front end hit and engine ran fine on that wreck just putting that crap back together - luck. Still just a parts car but was real cool to find out engine was fine so a bonus.
Long time ago now but think this crap is mounted on plastic so would need to be grounded which could explain a lot if that is now lost.
We are mechanics/techs and this is physical damage so doesn't fit some one size fits all thing yet till know back in order is where I'm coming from,


T



Steve60915
User

Feb 1, 2016, 4:03 PM

Post #7 of 18 (1312 views)
Re: 1994 Crown Victoria lx EEC Replacement? Sign In

Well it may not need to be replaced, thats last option. I'm still trying to get someone to take a look at it, but IF it needs replaced I needed to know if i could just slap one in from the parts store (which they have one for it) or if it needed to be programmed or something first. I kind of tried to check it but decided it best to wait for someone more comfortable under the hood.


Steve60915
User

Feb 1, 2016, 4:10 PM

Post #8 of 18 (1311 views)
Re: 1994 Crown Victoria lx EEC Replacement? Sign In

oh and no, the plastic box its in didn't get cracked... in fact i didn't even close the hood all that hard... there was barely an imprint from the cap... however the wires which a lot of them went to that were slightly under the box. But yeah from what i learned from the net the basic trouble shooting process is 1, check grounds 2, check those other wires 3, the three relays that sit right next to it attached to the plastic box (which the fuel pump one was good, i could hear it kick on, swapped it for the EEC one and it still worked so at least those two are good. The other was an ac cutoff i think) , and 4, remove positive terminal to allow it to reset (at least this is what the internet told me). If all fails replace the EEC...


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Feb 1, 2016, 4:31 PM

Post #9 of 18 (1305 views)
Re: 1994 Crown Victoria lx EEC Replacement? Sign In

You don't know yet what hit it took. It's plastic and may not have much to see for damage. All the fuses and relays under that had to be pushed down on and may have pushes the connecting wires right out of it. Under those cover I think show which spot for each one and what it does or is for.
Yes and you did swap A/C relay which is the same as others the fit and look exactly like it and it would run without A/C enabled if that one was any good just without A/C for the time.
Under that whole box is where all those things need to connect and suspect that's disturbed now. If you don't want to look then you aren't going know at least that much.
You may need a new or good used box if wiring was pushed out or who knows quite yet. A lot of function run thru there so till all back the way it was before this it's hard to know if much of anything is really broken except the box and wires held in place by it,


T



Steve60915
User

Feb 1, 2016, 4:41 PM

Post #10 of 18 (1302 views)
Re: 1994 Crown Victoria lx EEC Replacement? Sign In

ok, well lets start over as trouble shooting versus advice

http://autoforums.carjunky.com/photos/pic/252BCw9I/998.jpg

That is the box that i smooshed with the oil cap...


Steve60915
User

Feb 1, 2016, 4:49 PM

Post #11 of 18 (1300 views)
Re: 1994 Crown Victoria lx EEC Replacement? Sign In

Now since I did that all the dash lights work and are bright, head lights work incl high beams, When turning the key all the lights come on temporarily with the exception of the check engine light, The volt gauge on the dash does not move when turning the key to start. I did check any connections i could easily access, wiggled all wires , none were loose. Battery terminals were 100% clean, and I did my best to check the wire bunch that you can see there running along side under it but there was quite a bit of plastic and tape on them. The only two things i did not do was remove and clean the ground wires you can see there by the hood hinge and remove the battery terminal.


Steve60915
User

Feb 1, 2016, 4:52 PM

Post #12 of 18 (1298 views)
Re: 1994 Crown Victoria lx EEC Replacement? Sign In

Oh and tried to start it in all gears (just in case it was in a gear because that's what it acts like, like you're trying to start it in drive) and in every position on the tilt steering in case it was a wire issue in the column.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Feb 1, 2016, 5:59 PM

Post #13 of 18 (1295 views)
Re: 1994 Crown Victoria lx EEC Replacement? Sign In

Back to top for bit: You've said turning key does nothing at all to crank engine - right?
OK - Never happened to me but highly think there's a fusible link wire section that is probably at the starter motor - a smaller gauge wire than the main battery cable and just may have blown that somehow?
If so it should look wrinkled up and I think right at the starter it's just a section of wire. More to say but at some point of nothing found need to check that.
For now a test light and know how to use it to test for power and ground all around. As I recall the 4.6 is hard to get at in these to test for power at trigger wire.
If this is not th 4.6 I think it would be the 5.8 and starter solenoid is triggered from the passenger's fender a separate solenoid not on top of the starter.
What got stressed out or shorted with the fuse and relay box with 3 marked relays in your pic may actually not be the problem right now but elsewhere.
I'm lost. This got squished and appears like nothing happened but clearly did. From ignition switch thru fuse at that larger box shown or somehow lost fusible link which shows like it's right at the starter,


Can't help more than to see what items that you know got pushed down might have pushed the connecting female wire end out of that box.
If this somehow harmed the neutral safety switch it would still crank if trigger wire was empowered right to the solenoid or better test if it's getting power when starter requested.


This event sure did cause a lot of headaches for a simple mistake or one very unusual coincidence?


T



Steve60915
User

Feb 1, 2016, 6:42 PM

Post #14 of 18 (1289 views)
Re: 1994 Crown Victoria lx EEC Replacement? Sign In

I'll have to take a look tomorrow but thank you for the extra information. I'm not necessarily a car guy. I know electronics and of coarse that's where my head went. I'll have to see if i can get a good look at the wires you mentioned tho.


Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Discretesignals profile image

Feb 1, 2016, 6:49 PM

Post #15 of 18 (1287 views)
Re: 1994 Crown Victoria lx EEC Replacement? Sign In

Not sure what you mean by EEC needing programming. The engine computer, called a PCM, isn't even located near the area you did the damage. The PCM pokes through the firewall on the driver's side and can be seen above the emergency brake pedal. The PCM doesn't need programming. They are already pre-programmed at the factory. It's plug and play.

The fuel pump comes on, so the EEC relay is being turned and the PCM is controlling the ground side of the fuel pump relay. The PCM has nothing to do with the starter, so you better recheck your wiring before condemning it.

Do you have a picture of the damaged part?





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Feb 1, 2016, 7:09 PM)


Steve60915
User

Feb 1, 2016, 7:37 PM

Post #16 of 18 (1279 views)
Re: 1994 Crown Victoria lx EEC Replacement? Sign In

That was it the picture above... I assumed that's what was damaged or surrounding wiring. There was no warning that anything would happen like this before i went into the store. The only thing that happened was closing the hood on the fuel cap which was on top of the black box that was in the picture. Nothing happened before that to give indication anything would go wrong. By searching the internet for similar symptoms most of what I found had to do with an EEC and relay and the ground wires there by the hood hinge. So given that I had JUST done that right before it wouldn't start... anyway the symptoms i listed up above are what is going on and it happened right after i did that booboo. You don't even have to be by my car to experience this. Just go out to your car, put it in drive and then try to start it and you will have recreated exactly whats going on with the car only mine is in park when it happens.

Even went so far as to search up visual and audible queues for like error codes and the such which is where i found someone talking about when they hooked up the diag machine it didn't give a code as if the key wasn't in the ignition and someone asked about their check engine light and if it came on when turning the key along with the other lights and sure enough mine wasn't coming on either... in that thread and the others i read they all said it was wiring that involved the EEC.

That being said, since I couldn't really do anything at the time to check the wiring and such and felt i needed to do something I prepared for the worst and looked up the part just in case an entire part needed replacing which is where the question on rather or not an EEC could just be replaced from parts counter directly to car or not...


Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Discretesignals profile image

Feb 1, 2016, 7:46 PM

Post #17 of 18 (1277 views)
Re: 1994 Crown Victoria lx EEC Replacement? Sign In

As what was mentioned the PCM doesn't have anything to do with the starting system. You really should troubleshoot why the starter doesn't work.

There is a 50 amp fuse called IG SW in the under hood fuse block that protects the circuit that feeds part of the ignition switch. Make sure that it isn't damaged or blown out. If you have a volt meter or 12 volt test light make sure there is power on both sides of the fuse.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Feb 1, 2016, 7:51 PM)


Steve60915
User

Feb 1, 2016, 7:57 PM

Post #18 of 18 (1272 views)
Re: 1994 Crown Victoria lx EEC Replacement? Sign In

Yeah, now that i'm a little calmer about this situation the fuel cap incident may be just a coincidence. After reading some more it could be the small wire on the starter or starter solenoid too... Needless to say this is my first no crank no start and probably why people get mechanics when they can, a mechanic wouldn't be all wound up about his car not starting and would have checked those things first ... sigh... lessons learned..






  Email This Post
 
 


Feed Button




Search for (options) Privacy Sitemap