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1988 Mazda 929 - Intermittent issue with charge


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jsawchuk
New User

Dec 2, 2014, 8:09 PM

Post #1 of 11 (1349 views)
1988 Mazda 929 - Intermittent issue with charge Sign In

This is a brand new issue, on a very old car. I've owned it for 1.5yrs with no electrical issues. One morning, after a night of -20c (-4f) my car wasn't starting at all. At first it sounded like it wanted to turn over, and each attempt it sounded a little feebler, until the fourth attempt when all I heard was clicking.

I jump started it, it had no issue kicking into gear, but after removing the cables it slowly died and shut down within a minute.

I tried it again, and left both cars running with the cables attached a while and drove off, but the voltage meter started to drop and it was feeling weak and shuddering when pulling out from red lights. Parked it, let it sit a while, came back an hour later, jumped it, and it ran smoothly. Drove over 100km, and disregarded the whole thing as it just being too cold before.

Next day, after an even colder night, it ran fine, until 20km away or so, when everything started to die, starting with the stereo, then the lights, and I just managed to get off the highway when I lost power steering.

Jumped it, revved and watched the voltage meter rise as I revved and drop quickly below normal when I took my foot off the gas. Drove 100km home, no issues after that.

The issue continues intermittently. I'll get it running, and it'll be fine, then the next time, things'll cut out and it won't generate any power.


I'm not experienced with car maintenance, so you may need to dumb things down a little. That being said, I'll do any research necessary if I do not at first understand, so don't feel you need to dumb EVERYTHING down if it's a real hassle.
I've got a multimeter for testing, but that's about it.

Any advice is appreciated.
Jordan


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Dec 3, 2014, 1:21 AM

Post #2 of 11 (1321 views)
Re: 1988 Mazda 929 - Intermittent issue with charge Sign In

Jordan: You do need to know more about a car than average if you deal with those temps and just the age of the car. Check fluids a lot and take note of any that are using up too much or too often.


This "electrical" is probably fairly easy to diagnose but decide whether you want to or have it done even if simple plain tools and testing equipment add up quickly.


By your description I'd check how tight the belt is for the alternator first and condition of belt. Usually a loose belt will squeal and make itself known but not always.


If snug enough then you need to know it's output ability which really needs a full charge to check. A voltmeter would be handy and not that expensive as a tool. Cold by itself renders automotive batteries less powerful than "room temperatures" let's say. Perhaps only 1/2 of power or so at those temps if all was perfect but enough and clearly it's not.


Without going too nuts too quick on you do check belt charge battery or better yet have it charged and checked out fully. Note marks on it if no encrypted it tells how old it is which is the date it was made and is marked and embossed into it not just a sticker and might have one. Ex: C-1 is indicating March 2011 "C" being third letter and March third month and so on. May just say 3-1 also? Last digit would be year of a decade anyway. By 3-4 years but can be anytime the dependability and power drops off and shows up as the problem at temp extremes especially. You might need a new battery just because it's old enough.


Know that a totally dead automotive battery (lead/acid) will freeze and a charged one will not. That is harmful to fatal for a battery new or not for cars. When you jump and said so you also are asking the alternator to work very hard or try to and that's not good for it either. You can end up needing both easily.


For now check belt and charge battery for testing. Test with all off and cold and again with car running noting volts if nothing else. Should be about 12 to 12.6V just setting there cold and when running volts go up to 13- high 14.? volts or so not more and not less and be able to stay in that range if you turn on things like headlights, heater blower and you don't see much but a rear window defroster uses a lot of power so alternator is supposed to cover using those all at once and not draw down battery while running.


Careful jumping always. Donor cars/vehicles at risk so know that if yours is bad enough it's hard on the other vehicle. They have jumper boxes which are expensive for good ones that takes out the need for another vehicle and low risk as those you charge up again and again if you did this all the time and shouldn't unless in the road service biz.


Begin there. Soon as possible clean battery terminals just because and put penetrating oil on parts that hold it in place in hopes of not breaking stuff to remove it. NOTE: To be safe and always best is to remove a negative battery connection first and back on last when disconnecting for any reason.


No pun but let's get started,


T



jsawchuk
New User

Dec 3, 2014, 4:34 PM

Post #3 of 11 (1293 views)
Re: 1988 Mazda 929 - Intermittent issue with charge Sign In

Thanks for the quick reply! I just got the terminals shiny, and checked the belts. That all seems to be in line. I've got a voltmeter, batter was sitting tight at 12V without charging it. When I turned the ignition to get the stereo and lights running it dropped to 10V. When trying to start it, it dropped again to 2V or thereabouts, and returned to 12 when I turned the car off.

The battery just reads
Serial
N 1117626

No.
26R-5

Month
18/60

CCA
540

CA
665

Not sure if any of this is an indication. I can't make sense out of Month: 18/60.

It's a bit warmer now, we're up to 20F.

Thanks again for your help,
Jordan


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Dec 3, 2014, 5:50 PM

Post #4 of 11 (1283 views)
Re: 1988 Mazda 929 - Intermittent issue with charge Sign In

That battery is junk.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Dec 3, 2014, 7:24 PM

Post #5 of 11 (1274 views)
Re: 1988 Mazda 929 - Intermittent issue with charge Sign In

Agree Jordan - battery is junk by your tests. The 18/60 is probably what the warranty was. 18 mo. free new one then pro-rated for 60 mo. I didn't read the date but doesn't matter with those tests. If I didn't say in that dissertation up top batteries new or old get killed by cold and freeze if left in cold uncharged up to cracking case and leaking out acid - nice.


Really - it will be marked when made if embossed into plastic on it. New they are not charged to 100% and a good outlet will recycle new ones not sold within a year! Too important to bargain hunt for price you want a good name and right exact fit and power replacement. Charge new one first if time so you begin at 100%.


Glad you have a voltmeter. Next is get a battery maintainer/charger both for charging and when the real cold hits leave it on and it will or should start up crisply. Check those out literally $5.99 up to about $25USD for assorted ones. Home Depot sells them and no doubt others and major parts outlets everywhere. You want "floating charge" meaning it will come on and go totally off when done and come back on as needed by itself - read package for features. Duh - they require access to "house" power and not left out in the weather so situation may not work for you for all the time use.


Back now: Test again with known good and charged battery. If it shows low anything like what you posted and can't charge it up take it out and don't let it freeze at least..........


T


That's for the long term for battery life and helps tons in cold just anyway.



jsawchuk
New User

Dec 3, 2014, 9:33 PM

Post #6 of 11 (1266 views)
Re: 1988 Mazda 929 - Intermittent issue with charge Sign In

Great, glad it's just that simple. I'll see what happens with the new battery. A few people got me worried about the sequence of components shutting down, saying "yep- gotta be the alternator." Knew it couldn't be so absolute.
Thanks a ton for your help. Didn't expect it to come so quick.

Jordan


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Dec 4, 2014, 6:12 AM

Post #7 of 11 (1258 views)
Re: 1988 Mazda 929 - Intermittent issue with charge Sign In

We aren't saying it couldn't have been the alternator that ruined the battery in the first place but your symptoms are a classic dead battery. The alternator is responsible for keeping it charged but at some point the battery won't be able to hold a charge any longer and then it has to be replaced. That can be due to not being charged correctly. Test the charging system after replacing the battery.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Dec 4, 2014, 8:12 AM

Post #8 of 11 (1255 views)
Re: 1988 Mazda 929 - Intermittent issue with charge Sign In

Recheck as said Jordan. Up top YOU said it dropped to -4F which is enough already said to wreck for sure a new battery if too low so make sure alternator is charging and if not don't let it just run down a new battery or you'll be back at it again in no time,


T



jsawchuk
New User

Dec 4, 2014, 4:32 PM

Post #9 of 11 (1235 views)
Re: 1988 Mazda 929 - Intermittent issue with charge Sign In

I assure you I'll keep my eye one it. Got a new battery, she's running smooth, alternator is charging. Found a sticker with A2 on the bottom of the old battery, if that means January 2002, I'm not shocked it died. It wasn't driven around all that much before I bought it, but that's still an old battery.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Dec 4, 2014, 4:58 PM

Post #10 of 11 (1233 views)
Re: 1988 Mazda 929 - Intermittent issue with charge Sign In

Actually that battery was older than that. The actual build date is branded into the case. When they put a sticker on them it means it sat on someone's shelf too long. They take it back to the distributor and recharge it. They then re-date it with a sticker to be used as a warranty date, even though the battery is actually older. They then put it back on the shelf for sale.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Dec 4, 2014, 6:55 PM

Post #11 of 11 (1227 views)
Re: 1988 Mazda 929 - Intermittent issue with charge Sign In

Jordan: No telling what that sticker means now and glad you are all fixed up. Stickers or not the case is embossed/branded as HT just said to remove all doubts for warranty when/if info is missing it would go by the build date not a sale date.


Almost no lead/acid liquid filled automotive battery can last over the decade mark so they don't break it down that far.


This is really over now but the real marks embossed are the real thing if only for recall problems. Yup, found one encrypted and contacted brand name maker to find it was made in January, WXYZ year in Dayton, OH no less! Doesn't matter but it was a battery known built just two months AFTER the whole vehicle was built? Huh! That I can't explain and will never know and doesn't matter now,


T







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