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Loud ticking noise in 2.2 Ecotec


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bluearc74
User

Sep 13, 2014, 8:36 PM

Post #1 of 31 (15103 views)
Loud ticking noise in 2.2 Ecotec Sign In

Hello all. I am going to take my car into the shop to see if they can help me diagnose my issue. I have a 2003 Chevy Cavalier with the 2.2 ecotec engine. It has 98,000km and seemed to be in great shape until the other day it started making a small tick noise almost like hedge trimmers under my hood. It only seems to be the loudest at higher speeds and when letting off the throttle. I do hear it when picking up speed with higher rpm bit not as much just normally picking up speeds on the highway such as passing. It does seem to be getting worse. I changed the oil and it still is just as bad and didn't seem to help any. I have read different issues with ticking and so far the closest seem to be lifters and loose tension on timing chain. I have usually been able to avoid taking my vehicle in by diagnosing the issues by reading forums or help with my father in law who is a mechanic but lives too far to diagnose :-(. Any help on this would be much appreciated. Cheers!




Discretesignals
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Sep 14, 2014, 6:52 AM

Post #2 of 31 (15085 views)
Re: Loud ticking noise in 2.2 Ecotec Sign In

Without hearing the noise or being there to pinpoint the source we can't give you an accurate diagnosis. It probably wouldn't hurt to have it looked at by a repair shop.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.


bluearc74
User

Sep 15, 2014, 10:42 AM

Post #3 of 31 (15063 views)
Re: Loud ticking noise in 2.2 Ecotec Sign In

Yeah I am taking it in tomorrow morning. If it just the tensioner for the timing chain is this something easy for someone that is somewhat mechanically inclined? I do most my work as it is just not ready to rip the motor right apart.Cheers


Discretesignals
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Sep 15, 2014, 12:23 PM

Post #4 of 31 (15056 views)
Re: Loud ticking noise in 2.2 Ecotec Sign In

Don't know how mechanically inclined you actually are, but this isn't something for a novice. If you get it wrong, you'll end up with some big problems. If your going inside there to replace the tensioner, you should also do the chains, water pump, and guides. Chains stretch and guides wear out.







Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Sep 15, 2014, 12:28 PM)


bluearc74
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Sep 17, 2014, 10:48 AM

Post #5 of 31 (15035 views)
Re: Loud ticking noise in 2.2 Ecotec Sign In

Well I took it into a shop and they said they werent sure what it may be. But it may be the chain,or maybe conecting rods. They quoted 1000.00 to change the chain out. That includes the timing chain set parts and 6 hours of labour. I am taking it to another guy tomorrow for a second opinion. Any thoughts?


(This post was edited by bluearc74 on Sep 17, 2014, 12:09 PM)


bluearc74
User

Sep 23, 2014, 5:30 AM

Post #6 of 31 (15010 views)
Re: Loud ticking noise in 2.2 Ecotec Sign In

Well I took it to 3 shops and my father in law who is a mechanic all said the ticking is definitely a timing chain area sound. So I took the easier route first and purchased the updated style of timing chain tensioner and it was definitely different. Unscrewed the old one and noticed that the new one was shorter from the seat to where the tip would fully extend. This worried me as it would not be long enough to hit the tensioner on start up. I know there are a lot of guys that said only the old style tensioners had to be tapped and released but this one you just stick in and a way you go. I took it upon myself to release it before I stuck it in. It took one little tap on the end and she popped out and was now as long as the old style tensioner. Also when pushing on it, it now had spring tension on it, where it didn't before it was released. My father in law who is a mechanic said that the spring is still the main use for tension on the guide but the oil port on the new style fills the tensioner and acts as a cushion for the ram along with the spring.
I was also told that screwing it in with it released, the curved tip when you screw it in will automatically seat as it turns freely and not to worry. Well I put it in and she started up with no ticking but unfortunately once out for a drive there is still some sort of ticking coming from the same area. My guess is that there may have been a little more damage in there from driving it with it sloppy for a while. I guess I will now have to rip it apart and do a inspection and see what I can find!! Does anyone have any good DIY stuff on this job? My father in law said he would give phone support as he is 3 hours away but it would be nice to have some other reference material.Thanks for the help up to this point all!!


Cheers


Hammer Time
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Sep 23, 2014, 11:40 AM

Post #7 of 31 (15003 views)
Re: Loud ticking noise in 2.2 Ecotec Sign In

Or there could be an oil pressure problem.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Discretesignals
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Sep 23, 2014, 4:26 PM

Post #8 of 31 (15000 views)
Re: Loud ticking noise in 2.2 Ecotec Sign In

HT does have a good point. Screwing an oil pressure gauge into the sender port and verifying oil pressure when the engine is hot is a good idea before going all out performing a chain job. Should be 30-70 psi at 1000 rpm according to specifications.

If the pressure is good, the chain might be stretched out and slapping around in there. Chains do break on those things and when they do, your pulling the head to fix bent valves. I think your on the right track pulling it apart and replacing everything. With everything apart you could also push pressured oil in through the oil pressure sender port to be sure your feed to the chain tensioner is clear. Also make sure the oil nozzle is clear. There may be an updated nozzle in the timing chain kit.







Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Sep 23, 2014, 4:52 PM)


bluearc74
User

Sep 26, 2014, 7:57 AM

Post #9 of 31 (14978 views)
Re: Loud ticking noise in 2.2 Ecotec Sign In

I will definitely check the oil pressure. These new updated styles are spring loaded once activated and isn't the oil there just to add some shock absorbing cushion like lifters? I fully extended mine and screwed it in as it was the same extended length as the old style tensioner that I pulled out.


The port where to screw the pressure guage is located where. I have never needed to do this before as most my vehicles have gauges in the dash. Does anyone have a picture of this?


I am also wondering what the purpose is to activate these things so they pop out once they are installed. I know they do not need to as some have commented. For them to work properly they still need to expand to release the spring tension and use the oil as a buffer medium. Most guys I were told put them in without releasing them and once the engine is started they usually for most people internally get smacked and release on their own. Some people have not been as lucky. I just don't understand why they say to be released in place. I don't see why releasing them out of the car would be any different. Once released out of the car they actually are the same length as the old style and not shorter. I could see if there was a lot of tension trying to start the threads once released but it goes in fine.

I am going to start ripping everything apart today, so any help with this would be extremely helpful. Cheers all!!


Hammer Time
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Sep 26, 2014, 8:00 AM

Post #10 of 31 (14976 views)
Re: Loud ticking noise in 2.2 Ecotec Sign In

Those tensioners are hydraulic and operate from oil pressure.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



bluearc74
User

Sep 26, 2014, 8:14 AM

Post #11 of 31 (14973 views)
Re: Loud ticking noise in 2.2 Ecotec Sign In


In Reply To
Those tensioners are hydraulic and operate from oil pressure.

Ok fair enough. So where d the oil enter the hole on the threads. Is there a port where the threads sit on the block that supplies the oil? If so it would have to be exactly aligned to hit that small hole. Just trying to make sense. And can you explain why it cant be released out of the vehicle? Also where I can check the oil pressure?Cheers



Hammer Time
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Sep 26, 2014, 3:33 PM

Post #12 of 31 (14952 views)
Re: Loud ticking noise in 2.2 Ecotec Sign In

There is a port in the block under that particular tensioner shown in your picture. Alignment isn't an issue. It automatically aligns with the bolts but that tensioner is only for the balance shaft chain.

The main tensioner is external and can be faulty in itself.






~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Sep 26, 2014, 3:41 PM)


bluearc74
User

Oct 20, 2014, 7:38 AM

Post #13 of 31 (14837 views)
Re: Loud ticking noise in 2.2 Ecotec Sign In

Well first of thanks for all the info so far. It has helped greatly!!

Anyway back to the drawing board. After ripping her all apart and replacing the chain,cam and crank sprockets,bolts,the three guides, oil nozzle,timing chain tensioner, and balance chain tensioner with all GM parts she still has a mysteriuos chatter once warmed up. It definately does only sound more pronounced when the rpm,s are lower and engine is warm. My next step was to maybe check my oil pressure as it maybe will need that extra bit to tension those two chains?

My dash does not have a oil pressure guage so does anyone know where and exactly how to attach a pressure guage to the car somewhere? I was thinking if there would maybe be a port to attach to as I have access to a pile of different guages here at work. Also the size of threads and epected pressure would help so as to make up some kind of fittings and know where i should be at.

Also if anyone has any other ideas what this annoying noise could be that would help? My father in law did take his mechanics stethescope and he as well as three other mechanics feel it is definately coming from the timing chain area. I also pulled the serpentine belt off and ran it to see if the noise dissapeared thinking it may be just the tensioner pully going bad but no such luck.

Cheers


Hammer Time
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Oct 20, 2014, 11:17 AM

Post #14 of 31 (14832 views)
Re: Loud ticking noise in 2.2 Ecotec Sign In

You have to remove the sender for the light and take a reading from that port.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



bluearc74
User

Oct 20, 2014, 2:29 PM

Post #15 of 31 (14820 views)
Re: Loud ticking noise in 2.2 Ecotec Sign In

I have read that there is a proper place to take the most accurate reading as the oil goes through an orifice somewhere. Also the alternator needs to be removed and a t must be installed in order to keep the sensor on otherwise the car won't start? All this also happened after an oil change. I have read to use the proper filters as some of the orings are not good on the filters? I also am picking up the updated filter cap with filter after work and will try that.


Hammer Time
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Oct 20, 2014, 3:06 PM

Post #16 of 31 (14819 views)
Re: Loud ticking noise in 2.2 Ecotec Sign In

I don't know where you are getting this nonsense but that's ridiculous. There is nothing that shuts an engine down if the oil pressure sender is disconnected and as for starting, there is never any oil pressure until after the car starts. You simply remove the oil pressure sender and attach your gauge to that hole and run the car.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



bluearc74
User

Oct 20, 2014, 3:48 PM

Post #17 of 31 (14813 views)
Re: Loud ticking noise in 2.2 Ecotec Sign In

Ok is there a size of adapter needed to tie in where the sender goes? And what type of pressures should i expect?


Hammer Time
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Oct 20, 2014, 3:55 PM

Post #18 of 31 (14812 views)
Re: Loud ticking noise in 2.2 Ecotec Sign In

You're going to have to remove the sender to see what the thread size if. It will be a pipe thread. The pressure will vary with engine temp and RPM but it should never go below 5PSI. 10 to 15 at idle and full operating temp would be preferred.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



bluearc74
User

Oct 21, 2014, 6:44 AM

Post #19 of 31 (14792 views)
Re: Loud ticking noise in 2.2 Ecotec Sign In

I changed to the new updated oil filter hosing cap and filter. Got it right from GM. It was totally different. Also I noticed that where the timing chaing tensioner stops when threaded in I marked the 1 1/4" bolt head where the hole is and slotted threads to see if it lines up with the hole inside the block where the oil is suppose to pump in to the tensioner and it goes past this spot. The hole in the block is about 12 oclock and the hole on the tensioner stops between 1 and 2 oclock. i back this up a bit after installing the filter and housing, took it for a drive and it definately did change the noise to less occurance. Not sure why the tensioner doesn't line up. It is a new updated tensioner as well.


Hammer Time
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Oct 21, 2014, 6:55 AM

Post #20 of 31 (14791 views)
Re: Loud ticking noise in 2.2 Ecotec Sign In

Every time we advise you to do something you come back telling us you did something different. I'm going to leave you to make your own decisions. You are doing that anyway.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



bluearc74
User

Oct 21, 2014, 8:53 AM

Post #21 of 31 (14784 views)
Re: Loud ticking noise in 2.2 Ecotec Sign In

Don't worry I am doing what you recommend. I just don't have the time and parts yet to do the sender so thought I would do the easier trials as it took like five minutes. I will be doing whatever possible as I need this fixed as this car will be my boys first car and only has 90000km on it. I have to try all my options right?


Tom Greenleaf
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Oct 21, 2014, 10:14 AM

Post #22 of 31 (14780 views)
Re: Loud ticking noise in 2.2 Ecotec Sign In

Direct from where oil switch is removed IS the best + easiest way for REAL gauge oil pressure testing. You do need a socket for the switch and a 1/4 (I think) NPT (plumbing threaded end) for the gauge screwed into that same hole.


Pic may be wrong but says you get at this from the underside............



I can't think of another spot to get accurate pressure info. If you don't have time or tools for it get this done for you or borrow if possible the right stuff to do it.


If this really lacks adequate oil pressure your sons aren't going to get this car IMO,


T



bluearc74
User

Oct 21, 2014, 11:40 AM

Post #23 of 31 (14775 views)
Re: Loud ticking noise in 2.2 Ecotec Sign In

Thanks a lot for the pic. I will definately rig a pressure switch up with some flexible hose and a fitting for 1/4 inch thread. Do you know what kinds of pressures I should be looking for? Also the position of this sensor, where abouts is it? Do ya have to remove the alternator to get at it? As for socket it's just a regular socket? Nothing specialized?


Tom Greenleaf
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Oct 21, 2014, 11:47 AM

Post #24 of 31 (14771 views)
Re: Loud ticking noise in 2.2 Ecotec Sign In

Special socket for those. Just be careful not to bust sender with a poor angle of socket on it. I do NOT suggest using channel locks on the thing if you were thinking about that,


T



bluearc74
User

Oct 21, 2014, 1:31 PM

Post #25 of 31 (14758 views)
Re: Loud ticking noise in 2.2 Ecotec Sign In

If it is a matter of the oil pressure being insufficient can a guy not rebuild the oil pump as I heard it is a fairly easy job, wherever it may be. Or maybe put some equivalent to MMO, ATF or something in the oil to maybe unplug any orifices? The engine was sparkly clean when I opened her up so never really thought there would be plugged issues even only having 90000km.






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