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DaveinMD
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Aug 9, 2013, 3:00 PM
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Help With a '99 Protege
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Today I ran my car, then when I started it there was a big backfire followed by a car that ran like crap. I limped it home, a good 50 minute drive, and when I looked under the hood I was stunned to find bits of a spark plug and plug wire sitting on top of the engine. I pulled up the coil pack that one of the wires feed from (it has 2 packs for 4 cylinders) and found the plug wire was pretty much gone.
I replaced both the pack and the plug and it's still running like crap. Is that cylinder, AKA the engine, shot? It has 140,000 miles but I was planning on getting more. So much so that I invested in a timing belt recently.
Please tell me this engine is not toast.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 9, 2013, 3:02 PM
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Re: Help With a '99 Protege
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How did the spark plug come out? Did it take the threads out? Were they recently put in?
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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DaveinMD
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Aug 9, 2013, 3:28 PM
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Re: Help With a '99 Protege
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I switched out the plugs maybe 4-5 months ago, which represents about 10,000 miles of driving. But the bottom of the plug was not loose and still threaded when I took it out.
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Hammer Time
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Aug 9, 2013, 3:43 PM
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Re: Help With a '99 Protege
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Do a compression test if you want to find out if the engine is damaged internally.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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DaveinMD
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Aug 10, 2013, 4:48 AM
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Re: Help With a '99 Protege
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Yeah I guess I deserved that last comment. But to be fair I was stuck far from home, my wife was working, and our good friend who would have been my bail out just went back into the hospital (Stage IV) so I didn't really have a lot of options other than to get home fast.
(This post was edited by DaveinMD on Aug 10, 2013, 4:49 AM)
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Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 10, 2013, 5:10 AM
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Re: Help With a '99 Protege
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Just what happened to the plug in the first place? Did the hex and threads stay in and all the rest broke off or just threads and center electrode stay in and the rest with wire blew right out? That stuff happens sometimes (several came my way) all cheap stuff crimped plugs and same lousy brand not installed by me.
You said it unscrewed even broken at head right and could get a new one in? If some failures I can think of it would be wildly noisy running and no telling if plug wire with perhaps plug still attached would whip around and do what.
Take the compression test. If this failed such that parts went into cylinder it might have damaged cylinder walls, piston, or a valve and have seen all of those happen for assorted failures.
Your first question was is the engine junk. Can't know without some tests already mentioned.
Reason for not driving a car on seems like 3 of 4 cyl is what might have been just something stupid could now be a monster problem and very harmful to converter too,
T
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DaveinMD
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Aug 10, 2013, 10:42 AM
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Tom: the spark plug was still in place but the top half was blown clean off, like someone had taken a hack saw to the top half of it. I was able to take that part out and replace with a new plug. But it is still running on what appears to be 3 cylinders. I am pretty much convinced the engine is damaged beyond repair and am not putting a new engine into a car this old.
I'll ask my mechanic to do the compression test, I don't have that equipment.
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Hammer Time
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Aug 10, 2013, 11:57 AM
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I really don't understand why you are convinced of that unless there is more to the story that you aren't telling us. Simply breaking the porcelain off a spark plug won't damage the engine internally unless you dropped all the pieces into the cylinder while the plug was removed and then ran the engine.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 10, 2013, 12:40 PM
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Dave - no. That alone shouldn't do anything for mechanical damage to hard engine parts if I understand this correctly and as HT concurs.
Any noise now from driving like that could be a few things.
Raw fuel may have thinned out oil? That's not good! Dump it for new anyway. If somehow it's way over full and way too thin (oil) that could be damaging. Cylinder wash you would call that.
Perhaps the cylinder is now all carboned up.
? That cylinder was run and didn't warm up like the others and especially dissimilar metals or alloys really don't like that.
* If part of plug and wire was thrashing around who knows if it broke some other something?
Why does a plug just break: Usually upon installation. Other is the box or plug itself was dropped in handling but those usually don't run properly right away.
IDK - a splash of water perhaps on a hot engine from puddle - maybe. That or just bad luck.
Tell your mechanic exactly what happened but check the oil now and smell it,
T
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DaveinMD
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Aug 11, 2013, 5:36 AM
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I was basing my opinion on the comments that I was doing big time damage to the car by driving it and by the fact that the issue did not improve when I switched out the plug/coil. I just checked the oil, it has a normal smell and color but I did notice it was overfilled. Not sure how that happened, I usually keep that under check. But the new dipstick I got (the old one broke) is difficult to read and I obviously overfilled.
I was planning on calling my mechanic on Monday to discuss and not driving it unless I have to. I guess I should think about removing some oil too huh?
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Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 11, 2013, 6:47 AM
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Ah jeez. Is all of the old broken dipstick out of the engine? If your new dipstick is messing you up get the right one and verify it's accuracy as per owner's manual.
Most will say to check, level surface and engine off for at least several minutes or best overnight.
Most will indicate the low mark and the full mark, some just a crosshatch area some may put words on the stick itself or other indicator on the stick.
You have got to know where it is at. There's some tolerance to be off and I won't guess for you by how much is excessive. Generall but I'm NOT saying I'm sure accurate dipsticks for engine oil will take ONE quart at the LOW mark. Correct dipsticks are quite important of course not just for the level but they seal the crankcase as well when re-installed. Get that right with the exact right dipstick and know how to read it. That much is imperative.
You've already driven it I take it believing it's too full now - right? Do you change your own oil?
If so change it and filter and fill exactly to capacity listed in owner's manual as I'm not guessing.
If you are having troubles (apparently) with basics on this or any car for goodness sake get your real mechanic to show you. This is operator/owner's responsibility,
T
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Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 11, 2013, 10:57 AM
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What's worse is they don't get to their destination anyway and still blow the $4,000!
T
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Discretesignals
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Aug 11, 2013, 11:14 AM
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Either way hopefully your mechanic finds the solution to your problem and it isn't too expensive
Why the plug blew out is the mystery. The coil for that cylinder could be damaged while you driving it back home since the high voltage had no where to go. Just a theory.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Aug 11, 2013, 11:14 AM)
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DaveinMD
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Aug 12, 2013, 2:39 PM
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OK a few replies. Yes I change my own oil and yes I totally deserve the abuse for overfilling. But again the car leaks oil, as I said, so it wasn't a matter of putting in 6 quarts when I changed it last. I carry oil in the trunk and check it periodically. The dip stick I have is difficult to read and I got lazy and apparently overfilled. But I"m not a moron although you would never know if from this thread.
As for driving the car again this is a '99 Protege with 140,000 miles that leaks oil and has assorted other issues. Now was it dumb to drive? Yeah, I guess. But it's not like I trashed the engine of a new Hummer.
Just to clarify the plug blew up when the car was started, I remember now seeing bits of porcelain when I checked it when the car first acted up. It did not blow in transit.
(This post was edited by DaveinMD on Aug 12, 2013, 2:41 PM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 12, 2013, 2:59 PM
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Again, there is nothing in your description that would suggest a blown motor so I think you need to get it diagnosed properly.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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DaveinMD
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Aug 13, 2013, 4:48 AM
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It's at the shop now, thanks everyone for your advice.
One possibility: the check engine light has given me a code of a cat problem. The more I drive it the more I feel that it may be the inside of the cat is breaking up and blocking air flow. What are your experiences with after market cats you can get online? Again this is not a long term car, I just need to milk another year or so out of it and will NOT be putting a $1,000 cat on it.
(This post was edited by DaveinMD on Aug 13, 2013, 4:51 AM)
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Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 13, 2013, 6:46 AM
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Sounds like the right thing to send this out now. Cats are pricey. Aftermarket ones are lots cheaper and known not to perform or last as long but if you know you are dumping this car I'd consider it depending on YOUR mechanics judgement now,
T
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 13, 2013, 7:25 AM
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No, don't go online to buy a Cat. Take it to an exhaust specialty shop and if there is an aftermarket available that will work, and they will know, then can supply it and install it cheaper than you can do anything yourself. We install aftermarket cats all day for under $200 on most vehicles.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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