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Grinding/shimmy 2008 Mazda 3 2.3 140,000


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sks24
Novice

Sep 29, 2019, 10:44 AM

Post #1 of 17 (456 views)
Grinding/shimmy 2008 Mazda 3 2.3 140,000 Sign In

Last week I had the front struts and sway bar bushings replaced. I picked the vehicle up after the repair work was completed. About 1.5 miles away from the shop I noticed a noise and perhaps a bit of vibration in the front end. Another mile saw the problem become so pronounced that I was compelled to pull off the road and visually inspected the front end. I called the shop back and reported the issue. Troubleshooting over the phone yielded the diagnosis: the mechanic had neglected to tighten ALL the lug nuts on the front wheels. I jacked up each side of the car and loosened and then tightened (properly) all the front lug nuts. Now it seems like my pads are worn and giving me a grinding warning chirp, and the rotors are grinding upon applying the brakes. The grinding seems to be metal on metal, but it's not constant: clearly, it's only one part of the disk that comes into contact with the pad on each rotation My theory w/r/t this issue is that the rotors have somehow become warped. There's also an intermittent shimmy manifesting in the 62-68 mph range. The tires were new as of a few days before taking the vehicle in to have the front end work done, and they were perfectly balanced. (Discount Tire, Continental Extreme Contact)
The shop manager has asked me to bring the vehicle back so he can check behind the mechanic who forgot to tighten the lug nuts. I was planning on doing that on this coming Tuesday.
Perhaps the differential loosening of the lug nuts in those first 2 miles may have somehow bent both my wheel and rotors. Is that possible? What sort of damage might have attended my driving on "floppy" wheels for @1.5 miles? In any case, I'm wondering how I should handle this situation.
Thanks,
S


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Sep 29, 2019, 11:22 AM

Post #2 of 17 (447 views)
Re: Grinding/shimmy 2008 Mazda 3 2.3 140,000 Sign In

First > QUIT DRIVING THIS CAR!
Now catching my breath is what to do? OK, they knew a tech left wheels loose or some lug nuts. Just how did YOU find them YOU said you redid that?
The car's front end comes about completely apart to do that work, brakes out of the way and such. That's the best look at them you'd get even if not your request if seen that bad say something.
This job totally didn't go right is theirs to fix and fix right if they have to send it to another shop.
The shimmy that's intermittent is really scaring me too it should either be there or not suggests more went wrong.
For whatever reason this went so wrong shouldn't be your problem.
The suggestion is get it back if towed it's their problem now. Check it hard when they say it's done and perfect and THEY have checked that it is.
This work also means a front end alignment they may not do at their shop should have sent it out or said right away go here or there for that - something as that work disrupts alignment totally.


That's it - back it goes till it fine and this on them if more wrong now,


T



Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Sep 29, 2019, 11:24 AM

Post #3 of 17 (447 views)
Re: Grinding/shimmy 2008 Mazda 3 2.3 140,000 Sign In

You're way off on all your scenarios. Granted, leaving lugs loose is a serious failure and unforgivable but it did not damage your rotors, brakes, differential or anything like that. It could have eroded the wheel lug holes or wheel studs, depending how long you drove it loose.

The grinding could be something totally unrelated to the loose lugs.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Sep 29, 2019, 12:43 PM

Post #4 of 17 (439 views)
Re: Grinding/shimmy 2008 Mazda 3 2.3 140,000 Sign In

Focus quote from top "> I jacked up each side of the car and loosened and then tightened (properly) all the front lug nuts<"


I ask again, were they loose as in just finger tight or just started waiting for a torque wrench today or sockets that do that for air tools etc. If basically tight enough brakes and more may have all fallen apart in the job? IDK, take re-checking anything touched with that job,


Tom


sks24
Novice

Sep 29, 2019, 1:41 PM

Post #5 of 17 (431 views)
Re: Grinding/shimmy 2008 Mazda 3 2.3 140,000 Sign In

I think this will answer most or all of the questions here. It's what I was thinking of submitting them when I take it back Tuesday:

A quick reminder: When I picked up my car from you last week, the lug nuts on both front wheels had only been hand-tightened by your mechanic. I called Mike within ten minutes of leaving your shop, and he immediately suspected the lug nuts: I could turn some of them back and forth by hand. So I jacked the car up - both sides in turn - and loosened and then re-tightened the lug nuts while the wheel/tire was off the ground. Then I drove it home.

I took the car out this morning (Sunday) for the first time since I got it home, and there’s clearly something going on in the front end. There’s intermittent (based on rotation) metal-on-metal grinding which is associated with braking. My concern is that I may have bent the wheels and rotors as the hand-tightened lug nuts loosened at different rates in that 3 or so miles between your shop and when we determined they were loose. The rotors did need to be turned before I had the tires replaced and you worked on my front end: when hard braking from @60+mph I would get a small amount of rotor shimmy. But the warping was nothing like what we’re dealing with now. What I was going to do there was replace at least the front rotors when this set of brake pads wore out. But the pads seemed fine when I gave you the car, and worn pads should have been found out in your inspection. In any case, I hope all we’re dealing with here is worn pads and a warning chirp. If it’s rotors that warped because of this mistake with the lug nuts, then I’ll want to replace those. Since I was going to replace them within the next year or so anyway I’ll pick up price of the new rotors if you’ll install them for me without charging me for the labor to do so. I’ll also pick up the parts charges for new pads and the labor for installing the new pads (and greasing the calipers, etc.)

On the interstate, there’s an intermittent shimmy that’s communicated through the steering column wasn’t there when I had new tires put on last week. So it feels like something may now be out of round or out of balance. Perhaps this shimmy might be consistent with a bent wheel or wheels. I could be wrong, but I think this shimmy is only happening between @62-68 mph.

So please check to make sure my front wheels are not bent, and/or something is now wrong with the hub, and whatever else you wanted to do given the loose lug nuts - maybe he missed other nuts, etc. And if I need brake work, then I want to go ahead and do that.


sks24
Novice

Sep 29, 2019, 1:50 PM

Post #6 of 17 (427 views)
Re: Grinding/shimmy 2008 Mazda 3 2.3 140,000 Sign In

I think I'm being pretty fair there.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Sep 29, 2019, 1:57 PM

Post #7 of 17 (421 views)
Re: Grinding/shimmy 2008 Mazda 3 2.3 140,000 Sign In

I already told you that you're barking up the wrong tree with loose lugs causing any of that.

I'm not saying the problem isn't there but loose lugnuts didn't cause it. are you sure you had the wheels seated fully when you tightened the lugs.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



sks24
Novice

Sep 29, 2019, 2:03 PM

Post #8 of 17 (419 views)
Re: Grinding/shimmy 2008 Mazda 3 2.3 140,000 Sign In

"It could have eroded the wheel lug holes or wheel studs, depending how long you drove it loose."

I only drove it for maybe two miles while they were loose. When I first drove off there was no discernible problem. I only drove maybe 1/4 mile when they were so lose that, with the tire off the ground, I might have been able to move it and the wheel around with my hand. I agree with you about the slight wearing of the posts and holes on the wheel, and that the wheel is probably not bent.

They may have messed-up the alignment, and maybe the brake assembly isn't at spec.


sks24
Novice

Sep 29, 2019, 2:06 PM

Post #9 of 17 (417 views)
Re: Grinding/shimmy 2008 Mazda 3 2.3 140,000 Sign In

"are you sure you had the wheels seated fully when you tightened the lugs."

I was very careful with that: I got the wheels and tires off the ground, loosened and then retightened in a star pattern, final tightening when the tire was back on the pavement.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Sep 29, 2019, 2:09 PM

Post #10 of 17 (413 views)
Re: Grinding/shimmy 2008 Mazda 3 2.3 140,000 Sign In

They may have screwed up in other ways during the job but that isn't the result of the loose wheels.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



sks24
Novice

Sep 29, 2019, 2:09 PM

Post #11 of 17 (413 views)
Re: Grinding/shimmy 2008 Mazda 3 2.3 140,000 Sign In

I think the thing to do is just take it back to him so he can check behind the mechanic, and do any brake work as necessary. I trust him to fix any damage his mistake amy have caused.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Sep 29, 2019, 2:10 PM

Post #12 of 17 (409 views)
Re: Grinding/shimmy 2008 Mazda 3 2.3 140,000 Sign In

OK: It goes back on Tuesday. Do you have to drive this at all till then or even want to at all now? You could stop reading my crap now and just don't drive it or at absolute best once more if shop not too far AND your re-check how tight they are AGAIN,
Tom
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here's some babble on things that can happen: Loose lug nuts many or most rotors are actually held in place by the wheel being on and lug nuts hold it and centered over hub. Many not all brake parts like rotors have to be square on hub BEFORE you tighten a thing and know it. Those (any type of this stuff) that may have debris or rust (either) on a tilted rotor now can't be flush with the hub. Follow that?


So, you tighten it there it isn't really tight it's pushing against accumulated debris - or just not properly over hub??
This is right then and there paying attention if you are the one putting a wheel on AFTER it's been off especially if worked on for something - anything really.


I don't want to make a novel out of this but it's so dang important to not have an accident NOW over it!


If a tech makes a real mistake with no ill intent it happens you (the person or shop) take strong notice and NEVER allow that again. I could be honest and overlooked but now you said both sides it's shop procedures at least check a box this is known done and right when finished and making up any bill or receipt.


What happened or noted about aligning it? Not the cause of this IMO right now but no mention yet of that??


Sorry for such a long thread so quickly on this it matters. Mistakes happen but if chronic something has to change this is unacceptable to happen again to anyone.


Do be safe till this is right and feels right I can't force you not to drive it but this is public, open web have to say it still bugs me to keep using this car till solved,


Tom


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Sep 29, 2019, 2:11 PM

Post #13 of 17 (407 views)
Re: Grinding/shimmy 2008 Mazda 3 2.3 140,000 Sign In

That would be 100% correct thing to do, assuming you trust these people to do any more work. I would surely ask for a different "mechanic".



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Sep 29, 2019, 2:13 PM

Post #14 of 17 (403 views)
Re: Grinding/shimmy 2008 Mazda 3 2.3 140,000 Sign In


Quote
I don't want to make a novel out of this but



LOL ........... Oh yes you do



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



sks24
Novice

Sep 29, 2019, 2:29 PM

Post #15 of 17 (399 views)
Re: Grinding/shimmy 2008 Mazda 3 2.3 140,000 Sign In

I think I follow you re the hub and rotor alignment. I've taken my cars to this guy for 20 years, and I can recall no other mistake. It's 100% side streets between my house and his shop, so I'll never have to go over 25 mph back there. I have another car, so I'll just leave that one with him until he gets it right.

My main concern with posting here had to do with what exactly I should sort of be standing my ground with give his mistake. You've been enormously helpful in answering those questions: the loose wheel probably wouldn't bend anything, etc. I'll ask him to verify the alignment, and double check every component of the repair operation.

Thank you very much for your time and consideration!


sks24
Novice

Sep 29, 2019, 2:35 PM

Post #16 of 17 (393 views)
Re: Grinding/shimmy 2008 Mazda 3 2.3 140,000 Sign In

"I would surely ask for a different "mechanic". "

The owner told me he will do the work himself when I bring it back. He was the manager for the Lexus dealership shop before buying this one. He and his crew have always done excellent work for me in the past.

"LOL ........... Oh yes you do"
Laugh


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Sep 29, 2019, 2:37 PM

Post #17 of 17 (389 views)
Re: Grinding/shimmy 2008 Mazda 3 2.3 140,000 Sign In

You've got this under control now. I'll leave this open in case you have any comments after going back.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.







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