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Braking noise


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welsh12
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May 15, 2012, 3:55 PM

Post #1 of 20 (881 views)
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I need some advice...my car a nissan micra had new discs and pads put on way back in December by my local garage. I did'nt go for Nissan parts as it was a costly time of year and I was on a budget. Within a few weeks the steering wheel started juddering when braking so I took it back to the garage. They replaced the discs and said they were warped. Within another couple of months the same problem occurred so I took it back to the garage. Again the discs had warped, by this time I was fed up and told the garage I did'nt want to use the same brand of discs so they advised to use Nissan discs which I did.
However since having them put on I have had clunking noises from the brakes each time I brake. I took the car to a Nissan garage as I had lost faith in the original garage. Nissan looked over the car told me it was to do with the brake pads, however they had sorted the problem out and that they may make the noise in certain conditions (such as when raining). The noise has come back(I don't think it ever went!) and there has started to be a slight shudder on the wheel when braking! Now I don't know what to do....do i go back to the original garage or do I have to go somewhere like Nissan and get new discs and pads AGAIN? The original garage said they wouldnt guarantee the Nissan discs but I know Nissan does guarantee them.
I feel like this problem is driving me crazy ! Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator


May 15, 2012, 4:22 PM

Post #2 of 20 (868 views)
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Don't be so quick to blame the shop. You have a driver issue, not a repair quality issue. You need to change your driving habits.




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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



welsh12
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May 15, 2012, 4:38 PM

Post #3 of 20 (852 views)
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Thanks for the helpful reply! For your information we do not drive erratically or brake unnecessarily! We give plenty of time for the brakes to bed in and do not drive through low water. I also drive another car and have never had this problem before and have been driving for over 20 years!


Hammer Time
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May 15, 2012, 4:44 PM

Post #4 of 20 (846 views)
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The cause or rotor warpage is heat and only heat. Heat comes from HEAVY braking. The only other thing to look into is if the rear brake are working properly and not putting all the load on the front. It's not an installation issue for sure.




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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Discretesignals
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May 15, 2012, 5:19 PM

Post #5 of 20 (834 views)
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Warped front rotors can also come from over torqued lug nuts and binding calipers/slide pins.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on May 15, 2012, 5:21 PM)


Hammer Time
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May 15, 2012, 5:53 PM

Post #6 of 20 (824 views)
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The over torqued lug nuts may apply to a hub type rotor but I seriously doubt that you can warp a "slide on" rotor that doesn't even have lugnuts in it. The caliper issues go back the the HEAT cause which has been addressed. There are no other complaints to indicate a caliper or slide problem.




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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



way2old
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May 15, 2012, 7:10 PM

Post #7 of 20 (810 views)
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I was always taught the "slide on" rotors were more critical to the proper torque of the lug nuts. I guess all the instructors were wrong. hmmmmmm.



Being way2old is why I need help from younger minds


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator


May 15, 2012, 7:13 PM

Post #8 of 20 (807 views)
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Can you explain how the act of squeezing the rotor mounting surface between 2 flat surfaces will distort it?

I would just love to hear the theory behind that.

For the past 40 years i have watched people that should never have touched an impact gun, abuse lug nuts in every way possible, yet i have never seen a hubless rotor distorted from that.




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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on May 15, 2012, 8:01 PM)


Discretesignals
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May 15, 2012, 8:42 PM

Post #9 of 20 (792 views)
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I don't know the scientific reason for that, but I've been torquing lugs nuts for a long time. We have a big poster that shows the lug nut torques on different makes and models hanging on the wall at work. I'm sure there are other factors like sequence and making sure the hub surface is free of rust before mounting all that stuff up. The manufactures and engineers must have a reason for putting out TSBs concerning lug nut torque and warped rotors. Besides it saves the lug stud threads from getting pulled and crossing nuts.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.


Hammer Time
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May 15, 2012, 8:46 PM

Post #10 of 20 (786 views)
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I believe it will certainly make a difference in a hubbed rotor and one of the major reasons techs are requested to do that is to prevent wheels from passing them on the highway but it's not a factor here.




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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



nickwarner
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May 15, 2012, 9:01 PM

Post #11 of 20 (777 views)
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For what it's worth, while possible to damage a rotor by overtorque on a lugnut I also reread closely to see that multiple times and at multiple shops this has had the wheels off. One of the shops is a dealership and also if there is more than one tech at the independant the likelihood of the same guy doing the same thing every time to the same car seems a big out there. The brand of parts and the people changing said parts hasn't remained the same but the resulting failure has remained constant. The only thing that has stayed the same in this is the driver.


Hammer Time
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May 15, 2012, 9:03 PM

Post #12 of 20 (775 views)
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That's my feeling on this. It's either driver abuse or inoperative rear brakes.




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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



nickwarner
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May 15, 2012, 9:10 PM

Post #13 of 20 (771 views)
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Something is certainly overstressing them. Maybe even a partially plugged compensating port in the master cylinder dragging the fronts. But what I see is either A: something isn't being looked at closely enough B: this guy has gotten dud parts from two different vendors every single time C: everyone in his town with a shop is incompetent to do a brake job or D: he's riding this car harder than he lets on. I'd like to know which one it is for sure.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator


May 15, 2012, 9:12 PM

Post #14 of 20 (768 views)
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Nobody has ever mentioned any smoke off a wheel or unusual heat. We are dealing with just heavily used brakes that aren't overheating.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Discretesignals
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May 15, 2012, 9:39 PM

Post #15 of 20 (763 views)
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It would be nice to know what the thickness variation and lateral run out of those rotors are. If you have a lateral run out problem, it will cause a thickness variation problem which is the main cause of pulsating brake pedals.

Maybe they aren't checking the lateral run out of the rotors after machining or installing new ones. Nissans are sensitive to tolerances and horrible about brake noises. Don't have the Mica here in the states, so can give you any LRO specs.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on May 15, 2012, 9:40 PM)


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator


May 15, 2012, 9:43 PM

Post #16 of 20 (756 views)
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The rotors were replaced twice, the second time with OEM rotors.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Discretesignals
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May 15, 2012, 9:47 PM

Post #17 of 20 (752 views)
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That doesn't mean anything. You can be out on your lateral runout with a new rotor. Seen that happen several times. Which usually ended up with clocking the rotor or sending them back. A lateral run out problem in a hub can cause a pulsation too. May not show up for a few thousand miles, but will if the tolerance is out. If they were machined with an on the car lathe, that would correct any LRO.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on May 15, 2012, 9:49 PM)


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator


May 15, 2012, 10:27 PM

Post #18 of 20 (737 views)
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It's not even a full moon but the crazy problems are abundant. Has anyone verified wheel bearings are good? Once in a while they can fail and not make typical bearing noise. This should have sealed bearings and zero freeplay. Just a thought,

T
_________________________________________
Long retired now


nickwarner
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May 15, 2012, 11:14 PM

Post #19 of 20 (726 views)
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An excellent idea. I wondered about that but since multiple shops have looked at it figured that would be caught. Still, Murphy's Law still rules the world. I think I dodged it today myself. The throttle cable on my bike snapped right as I pulled into the driveway. Pushed the bike a whopping 40 feet to its normal spot and ordered a $20 cable on Ebay. Maybe I should get a lotto ticket while I'm at it?


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator


May 16, 2012, 1:55 AM

Post #20 of 20 (720 views)
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You are lucky with the bike to be so close. With the car there have been two tries at parts and same symptoms so somehow the wrong tree is being barked at. This state is hard on brake parts by law. Can find cheap crap but illegal to sell non OE exact spec stuff or better OK. Better is fully balanced with fine cross hatch cut and baked on paint everywhere but the friction area of course. No rust outs with those!

If this car needed the sledge to remove old rotors it might have hurt a bearing right then? Who knows? Something stupid probably is just being missed as this problem shouldn't be rocket science,

Tom




Braking noise


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