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2004 civic , can't get a pedal ,


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dr.donut
User

Mar 20, 2019, 1:42 PM

Post #1 of 8 (145 views)
2004 civic , can't get a pedal , Sign In

Changed the drivers rear brake line that was leaking , with lines disconnected from master cylinder and short lengths of hose on feeder lines I gravity bled the rear brake lines , with short fittings snugged onto the master and hoses on them leading into the master reservoir I bled the master cylinder , then bled the four wheels , then repeated this 3 more times and can't get a pedal . I connected the fittings together from the master and with a little pressure it blew the hose off so I think the master is good . Still couldn't get a pedal , couldn't even pump one up . What else can I do ? Thanks .


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Mar 20, 2019, 2:47 PM

Post #2 of 8 (141 views)
Re: 2004 civic , can't get a pedal , Sign In

? + !!. It blew a hose off? What hose where? Is that what you fixed or what did you do for leaking line? Metal or rubber would be pre-made and exact.
Dr. D (give you a nickname) making up metal lines that rust or broke for some reason takes some (not too bad) tools and know how most would cut line where it is still good to another spot still good or do the entire length as seen fit with it in front of you.
You can't fix lines with compression fitting like you might for an ice maker to a refrigerator or some other places if you did it's not the way and illegal to do so more importantly doesn't work.
Strong guess any line failed and master cylinder lost all pressure so pedal goes to floor where it hasn't been and again attempting to bleed it with no luck.


What is way too common is the master has crust inside bore where it hasn't traveled in years and years and tears up seals. That and this must have ABS so "gravity" bleeding you have to have now serious tools (I would have to look this up with software I no longer have) for the approach. Some just work some you can't the now VERY old ways.
Hey - it's brakes and I think I speak for others if unsure of both the fix and how to bleed and know it right you should have hands on help the first time doing lines yourself I just can't imagine the best of a YouTube knowing just what you needed to do if wrong or lines rubbing it's dangersous.


Please have a qualified tech check this work in person. I know that stinks now you can't drive it hope you can figure something out. Yes this stuff is doable and NO not by yourself the first time bending lines or what you did unknown exactly.


Sorry for the novel it's just too critical to know it's totally right and safe.
One last note: I don't see rusted out lines so much on Honda, Toyota and others but plenty on other makes - really and live in a rust belt they go all the time but not on all makes. Flex hoses could blow out you don't fake those or any of this. Rubber line is only pre-made you don't make your own without some pretty wild equipment.


Again get help. Do say what you did if you have time the answer is the same NOT a first timer for this stuff,


Tom



dr.donut
User

Mar 20, 2019, 6:07 PM

Post #3 of 8 (129 views)
Re: 2004 civic , can't get a pedal , Sign In

The hose that blew off was a temporary for bleeding purposes I was trying to see if the master put out any pressure , I replaced the leaking line with new 3/16 bubble flare brake line from the proportioning valve to the wheel cylinder , I just did all the lines on a 2002 civic and didn't have a problem . I remove the old and bend the new to match and they are tucked away neatly . This 2004 does not have ABS it was made in canada . I've bled many a brake line with these methods without a problem . This car may have sat for a while before I bought it and sat for a few weeks before I could get the fluid back into the master so I think that may be the problem . It was a cheap car and I've been working the bugs out for a few months now . Thanks for the input .


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Mar 20, 2019, 11:15 PM

Post #4 of 8 (117 views)
Re: 2004 civic , can't get a pedal , Sign In

OK - sorry - you scared me thinking this was rubber line made up not metal. A temp line to bleed wouldn't take much blow off so that's not info yet.
Add to confuse it is knowing specs for this car "Made in Canada" or made FOR use in Canada. Where it's assembled and specs for which country should be available on an original driver's door jam and stickers under the hood.


No ABS at some age now is a good thing most would be troubles and default to regular braking action but it would still be there to deal with. Lines everywhere and packed in tightly also held neatly in place and need to be.


For now see if you can block off master and get a pedal that way. I highly suspect it has failed as said in my mess above. For MA in US rebuilding those is not legal TMK if buying parts on line seems nobody could care as long as it sells and gets paid for.
Still thinking and need to know where this car was made to be sold to and used when new the VIN should be all over this car and match up.


My trouble now is it's such a popular car would think made up many versions for country of original destination Canada has strong but its own specs some harsh some less so like not requiring ABS if so for places that use salt for snow/ice it gets foolish IMO the conditions change faster than that can help in fact makes matter worse IMO again just can't outsmart road conditions.


Refresh this: I just don't know how to be certain this master cylinder is any good nor if testing it any which way be conclusive enough? If lines were rusted and it is original or appears to be it probably should just be replaced as part of the repair of this car so would be hunting down the right one new even if rebuilt ones are available wouldn't go that way,


Tom



dr.donut
User

Mar 21, 2019, 10:44 AM

Post #5 of 8 (103 views)
Re: 2004 civic , can't get a pedal , Sign In

The pedals O.K. , I guess I expected too much . I can get bugged out in the afternoon . I started it up and put it in gear on the jack stands and the fronts stopped just fine , . I did buy a piece of line to put the master in a short loop to see if it was bad but never did . Took it for a ride and it's as good as any , you can put your other foot under the pedal when you stop . . I've heard you never get the pedal like it was new . Thanks again . I believe I searched the vin and found it was made in canada , plus the windows are manual and the speedometer is primarily kilometers , a dead give away .


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Mar 22, 2019, 12:54 AM

Post #6 of 8 (91 views)
Re: 2004 civic , can't get a pedal , Sign In

Seems you are doing good homework. Clue of "ODOMETER" REGISTERING KMs more a clue than speedometer.
What is hard to know is if pedal feel and action is normal or a fault if now it works at all. Had this been either a brand new car or brand new brakes they do NOT feel their best for a short while of use would be normal but you didn't do or work on that stuff.


At some point the real test is drive it where safe and clear see if it stops with full ability expected and can repeat that perhaps hours later if not there is likely air or a problem still. If fine and stable can call this part of a fix done for now.


Good luck that it's all in order for what you fixed now? It very well could be,


T



dr.donut
User

Mar 23, 2019, 2:04 AM

Post #7 of 8 (79 views)
Re: 2004 civic , can't get a pedal , Sign In

I'm keeping a close eye on it , now I can take care of the truck , I had 3 vehicles lose their brakes one after another , At my age things can take a while , being out in the cold for a few hours is enough , I'd buy newer but I just don't like them , seems like more headaches , $$ and things to go wrong


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Mar 23, 2019, 4:43 AM

Post #8 of 8 (72 views)
Re: 2004 civic , can't get a pedal , Sign In

If and must be rusted lines at about this age in rust-belt areas. This time of year with cold nights, warm melting days brings out the worst or speeds up what was waiting it seems.
What to do? If you get a car/truck before this has started I use spray grease all over all lines, brakes and fuel plus trans cooler lines. Parking brake parts if by cable exposed and the list goes on.
Anything using a "flare" nut can and will stick line to inside of nut it's not the threads usually so if it turns you spin the line so watch carefully and stop if it does. PB and take a day off come back or torches when and where possible is another thing to learn how to do without a disaster and costly to have and store away. That's the end all "BLUE WRENCH" I call them (set with tanks) - sizes don't matter anymore!
Again on rust: Watch the crimp collars of flex hoses too. Have seen those go and rubber line (the intended stuff) blows right off if crimp metal goes! If you find one check everything!
If bad enough you already should know it's the end of that vehicle cost wise,


Tom







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