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1989 Ford Country Squire NEED HELP BAD


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Ford Man
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Oct 6, 2014, 9:41 AM

Post #1 of 9 (2004 views)
post icon 1989 Ford Country Squire NEED HELP BAD Sign In

I restored this wagon and had it looking factory new.Last week I just tapped the brake and smoke came out from under the hood and I had no brakes.I saw fluid on the ground.
I checked under the car and the hood.No hoses were wet so I can't locate the what leaked on the hot exhaust.Also I searched for but can't find the brake switch that I think may have blown the top off.
Where I live were not allowed to work on our cars in the parking lot so I want to figure out what could have let go on the right side in and near the right front wheel
Thank you
Personal contact info removed
BOB LECH

(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Oct 6, 2014, 3:18 PM)


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Oct 6, 2014, 9:56 AM

Post #2 of 9 (1997 views)
Re: 1989 Ford Country Squire NEED HELP BAD Sign In

Hold on as I'm going to look right at the most likely problem leak that would spray on exhaust for this exact layout of brakes,


T



Tom Greenleaf
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Oct 6, 2014, 10:06 AM

Post #3 of 9 (1993 views)
Re: 1989 Ford Country Squire NEED HELP BAD Sign In

OK - Most likely a rusted pin hole on obscured line from the proportioning valve to right front as it also goes into the muddy mess over frame where oil pan does a double dip/two drain plugs catches crap.


Spray from a pin hole even can travel any which way. Oils do not rinse off but brake fluid will with plain water so when cold you can rinse away from electrical stuff please and watch the leak return to know for sure the source.
This can happen to relatively unrusted vehicles with that hump oil pan. More often the rear lines along frame to flex hose a differential or along differential are first in rusty areas such as road conditions/salts.


You may think it's all rust free but should really look hard at fuel and all brake lines and I'll throw in another is to white lube spray the trans support tips to the mounts on the frame - common to give out by surprise, engine tilts and fan hits shroud when those go.
Trust me! I should know. Two Panthers in my sight right now!!!! Had many till the fell to the ground from rust,


T
(added to say - if water used to rinse and find leak be certain to bleed out brakes fully and sure to be free of water in lines leaking out could also leak water in. If you can't bleed out calipers toss them, they are dirt cheap)



(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Oct 6, 2014, 10:08 AM)


Ford Man
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Oct 6, 2014, 11:07 AM

Post #4 of 9 (1983 views)
Re: 1989 Ford Country Squire NEED HELP BAD Sign In

Thanks very much for responding.
I did go over the lines and as I said in the post I saw fluid on the right not to far under and about 12 inches behind the right front wheel.
I rebuilt the engine and I am aware of the 2 oil plugs and other things you mentioned.
I guess i'm going to have to fill up the master cylinder and have someone press the pedel down slow then I may be able to spot it but I have a feeling it's the steel line.
Another thing that happened right after this is that the rear lights may or may not go on after sitting.
I turn on the key and they go off.
An hour or 6 hours later the rear,and only the rear lights go on.
This is why I have been under the hood looking for some sort of pressure switch.
I can't locate a book for that old Ford.
If you have any idea o that please let me know.
Thank you
BOB LECH
BOB LECH


Ford Man
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Oct 6, 2014, 11:17 AM

Post #5 of 9 (1982 views)
post icon Re: 1989 Ford Country Squire NEED HELP BAD Sign In

I forgot to say that this leak is 100% coming from the rear as near the back of the engine and I assume the leak squirted on the hot converter.From what I saw so far the line does not go over or near the frame but then I can only eye ball the line so far.Well a can of break fluid in in the car so tomorrow i'll be trying my best but I sure hate having to remove the steel line.
Thank you
BOB LECH
BOB LECH


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Oct 6, 2014, 2:59 PM

Post #6 of 9 (1963 views)
Re: 1989 Ford Country Squire NEED HELP BAD Sign In

Back now. I'm here a lot but not constantly. OK - do fill it up and have a helper force the leak to find it for sure. If needed take RF wheel off and look while off too. Hoses can go too but not so sure it would easily hit anything hot. Actually just do them if real old as you've done so much and have to bleed this out whatever/wherever the leak is do it then. It would be remarkable if the steel flare nut to rubber hose and how it's held doesn't give you tons of grief.


If for some reason line in general is good but some stupid thing broke it you can cut if off where room allows at a good spot and put just that end on new but must follow code to flare and use any unions for BRAKES.


Other problem may arise and caused by this is master cylinders may not have enjoyed going to the floor meaning it has travelled deeper than it has in possibly ages and that can easily tear up the seals that hold pressure for it and be toast. These are NOT that hard to do nor expensive parts.
I'm betting on steel line and you really should know how to do them if you want older vehicles. I prefer to buy the longest line pre made with two flare nuts already on it. It's whacked but just flare nuts cost more than they are worth if you need them just buy a short line and cut it. Takes a tubing cutter and clean cut if you intend to flare it.


IMPORTANT: Now if this requires and you want to do the whole line to the proportioning valve (never saw one of those leak) the flaring tool and bending tool(s) are available at any parts store. Again, I prefer if only one bending tool the simple one = look at them when in a parts store.


If line isn't long enough get two and a union. Run a tape measure or something and one line will be ready to go the other custom cut to required length. IT REALLY SHOULD BE ROUTED AND HELD WITH ANY HOOP HOLDERS ALONG THE WAY AND NOT RUBBING ON ANYTHING OR NEW CAN FAIL FROM JUST VIBRATIONS!


With a lot of thought you can make some slight routing changes but seriously think that it must be out of the way of other parts plus not near anything too hot and not where you would jack it up or road debris could just let a rock take it out.


This is doable and can take time but not costly for parts. First time if so you may wreck making a flare good enough but you'll get it. Duh - it can't leak so whatever it takes this has to be fixed.


Trick for keeping things forever is every time you so much as are under it or rotating tires put spray grease on things that are subject to this usually caused by rust even if not a rusty car in general it happens. Again, look for other areas that look bad while at it and do those too.


One more trick if not aware is if a line and flare nut doesn't behave at all or rounds out the flare nut OR spins a line cut it off and use a socket on it like a six point metric or whatever is tight and even tap socket on hard with hammer to remove a flare nut that's not making you day! Smile,


Tom



Tom Greenleaf
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Oct 6, 2014, 9:29 PM

Post #7 of 9 (1952 views)
Re: 1989 Ford Country Squire NEED HELP BAD Sign In

Sorry I forgot to address the light issue. IMO not related to the leak which needs instant attention first.


Lighting problems even the brake lights are thru a switch at brake pedal not the proportioning valve which will set off the red warning light on dash if/when pressure is off which clearly it is, Tom


Ford Man
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Oct 7, 2014, 2:24 AM

Post #8 of 9 (1943 views)
post icon Re: 1989 Ford Country Squire NEED HELP BAD Sign In

Hi Tom,
That was close to a book you wroote but I really appreciate it. OK I been a car and cycle mechanic for 35 years. I took a light out with me around midnight and the line going from the right front wheel I can follow with my hand so far then I run out of arm :-) I have reason to believe the steel line may have rubbed against something then developed a pin hole. The fitting are pretty much corroded and i'm hoping that I can just replace a hose but that upper fitting is no where near the exhaust but I guess a rotted line can squirt brake fluid any place. I have the tools and I can make a double flare. If the leak it higher up I see no way to have room to cut the line and put in a union. If that's the case then I will buy a new line and route it up against the firewall then bring it down to the frame and clamp it there. I drove all day and I did not pay much attention but I noticed the brakes seemed a big mushy. I was doing no more then idle speed and had to stop and the peddle went way down. 5:15 AM here in NJ so i'm going out for breakfast then put some fluid in the master cylinder. Just knowing where the leak is coming from will make me happy then I will know what I ave to do. Thanks for all the information. I cannot locate a book here. I will keep you posted Thank you BOB LECH
BOB LECH


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Oct 7, 2014, 4:12 AM

Post #9 of 9 (1941 views)
Re: 1989 Ford Country Squire NEED HELP BAD Sign In

Bob - of all the mega hundreds of this vehicle's platform and engine I've messed with or owned (many) never had to do the entire line just a problem spot and done properly.


This engine was out and may have been bumped then and wait ages to make a problem. The frame under oil pan on these do or don't catch debris like mud, road sands and salts, leaves and have replaced oil pans that rusted so badly the oil leaked!


This is a chassis vehicle so you need to think hard if moving the line to a different route. Frame is all on rubber mounts and body isn't a welded connection so that movement as necessary is done thru the flex hoses specially made to do that.


I think if flawed area or whole line is that difficult I'd avoid firewall route and tilt engine to get line where it originally is. The couple ways line is held matters. Loops like for holding wiring with a bolt to frame that self taps with OE bolts now may not come out and break off or other is a spot welded flap to stronger metal you pry up and tap back down over new line - if rusted and they do under that type they also break right off.


Things to avoid if any changes needed: No movement of line that can vibrate or rub with plain vehicle vibrations. Vehicles with multiple lines frequently use a plastic comb along the way such that they are held and don't rub each other.


Gotta think hard if being creative. New holders for line that are rubber coated can work and last.


Of course the problem is not all leaks give you a warning like the soft or fading pedal feel but blow at exactly the wrong time fast from a needed sudden stop so you are dealing with fully dangerous work to do it right despite items to do it are inexpensive as things go.


On this and other vehicles you'll see original line with them wrapped in a coil of wire that can protect line from stones/debris and or so they can be bent new with sharper curves but also hold junk that rots them too as they don't dry out as fast and hold junk.


I assertively grease all I find while good. There's always some risk of failure with any machine or thing that moves at all so think first install when convinced it's right.


First sign of anything not right and noted fluid level low find the problem right away wherever it is with brakes especially.


Same stuff happens with fuel lines on some usually age associated along with hidden dirt that doesn't wash away and out of sight. This stuff OE is under engineered IMO in many.


Within last year (been done with this for a long time now except my own) found NAPA selling line with a plastic like coating for corrosion and possibly to make bends easier without kinking line. Some line is sold in roll of so many feet or pre-made in lengths some more tolerant that others by maker?


Tom







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